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  1. #31
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    I'd say muggle is only sometimes a slur, it depends on who is saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    There is more they can do, assuming they know Vampires. Blacks and Reds don't do well around objects of faith, Blacks don't do well around Garlic, etc. Fire isn't the only choice they have. Besides, fire only works if it hits. Even Whites are fast enough to dodge a blast if they have a moment's warning.
    What kind of objects of fate do they carry around as standard equipment? They carry wands..those aren't exactly objects of faith. I can't even remember religion being mentioned much if at all. What was the bibles take on witches?
    Last edited by Surtur; 01-03-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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  2. #32
    Burrrrrn Sol M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    The only member of the Big 3 I'd say is more or less "average" is Ron. Harry has some combat experience and raw power and Hermoine is..well, Hermoine.
    Saying that Harry has "some combat experience" solely due to having learned a few combat spells during the Triwizard Tournament might be overselling him a bit.

  3. #33
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol M View Post
    Saying that Harry has "some combat experience" solely due to having learned a few combat spells during the Triwizard Tournament might be overselling him a bit.
    Just overall he's been in more fights then the DA members. True that doesn't say much since pretty much all of them had been in zero serious fights.
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  4. #34
    Burrrrrn Sol M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    ...Now that I think about it, I'm not really certain Muggle isn't equivalent to a racial slur. It certainly sounds like one.
    It's certainly easier to say "muggle" than "non-magical person" or even "non-wizard".

    It's just a term used by magical people to describe non-magical people. If a muggle called a magical person a warlock, would it be a racial slur?

    Compare it to a word like "mudblood", which is obviously a degratory term that discriminates magical people based on factors that don't really distinguish them from other magical people.

  5. #35
    A Thinking Man's Rhino Omegalith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol M View Post
    It's certainly easier to say "muggle" than "non-magical person" or even "non-wizard".

    It's just a term used by magical people to describe non-magical people. If a muggle called a magical person a warlock, would it be a racial slur?
    It doesn't really sound like a technical term though, and it's usually used dismissively and patronizingly even when it doesn't have hateful intent.

    Warlock would depend on the history of the word's usage, I guess. If it's meant as a non-gender specific version of "Wizard or Witch", cool.

    It's initial meaning, Oath-Breaker, is pretty offensive - If nonsensical in this context.

    Compare it to a word like "mudblood", which is obviously a degratory term that discriminates magical people based on factors that don't really distinguish them from other magical people.
    That's a slur within the community though: It refers to a different concept.

    "Tainted by Muggle parentage", no less.
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  6. #36

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    In that context, "muggle" means exactly the same as "non-magical human", and is only a slur because the people who say that phrase don't like non-magical humans. If they said "black parentage" instead, it'd still be a racist phrase, but "black" wouldn't be a racial slur.

    Heck, they have classes on Muggle Studies so that they can better blend in with the non-wizarding world. These classes are apparently woefully ineffective, but that has a lot to do with the fact that wizards are kinda scatterbrained.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol M View Post
    It's certainly easier to say "muggle" than "non-magical person" or even "non-wizard".

    It's just a term used by magical people to describe non-magical people. If a muggle called a magical person a warlock, would it be a racial slur?

    Compare it to a word like "mudblood", which is obviously a degratory term that discriminates magical people based on factors that don't really distinguish them from other magical people.
    To me, it's the intent that matters. In the real world, people can refer to their friends and family with ethnic slurs or other "bad" terms and not have them be offended by it because they know what the person really meant. I can go around calling my best friend a motherfucker or whatever and not have the crap beaten out of me because he or she knows that's just how I talk. But I can't do that with strangers.

    I'm sure there are lots of wizards in Harry Potter who are like this too, but everyone I saw on page/on screen used it to separate themselves/distance themselves from non magic users. I would consider "muggle" to be racist in the sense that wizards see themselves as a separate race of people. It's no less absurd than people claiming that humans in real life are made up of different races, which they aren't.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Dr Will Hatch's Avatar
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    I mean, look at the X-Men. Do they go around calling everyone who's not a mutant a flatscan? No. It's used by a small number of bigoted mutants.

  9. #39
    Winter Queen Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    I mean, look at the X-Men. Do they go around calling everyone who's not a mutant a flatscan? No. It's used by a small number of bigoted mutants.
    And now we are going way off topic.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member greatmetropolitan's Avatar
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    I don't see the DA surviving this one. I don't think they last long at all.

    All it really takes is for, say, all the Red and Black Court vamps and vassals to attack with everything they have to work as a distraction. Meanwhile, the White Court vamps with their huge speed and guns and swords just pick off the DA one by one. Or, as has been said, the White Court vamps turn up some emotional whammy and 90% of the DA are paralyzed with lust, or even turned to helping the White Court.

    Too much speed, strength, firepower and mental control on the vamp side for the DA to handle. Bloody murder ensues.
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  11. #41
    Burrrrrn Sol M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegalith View Post
    It doesn't really sound like a technical term though, and it's usually used dismissively and patronizingly even when it doesn't have hateful intent.
    That's more an attitude the wizards in Harry Potter have than because there's something wrong with the term.

    I mean, it's a term that's probably centuries old, at least, and coined by people whose idea of science is more along the lines of "Should this magical effect be produced by performing this action while muttering pseudo-latin?". It's unlikely to sound very "scientific". It is however, both a commonly used as well as a technical term, given that they have subjects and governmental departments with the term used in their names.

    Warlock would depend on the history of the word's usage, I guess. If it's meant as a non-gender specific version of "Wizard or Witch", cool.

    It's initial meaning, Oath-Breaker, is pretty offensive - If nonsensical in this context.
    Even witches were a term used to discriminate against people, if we're going into that.



    That's a slur within the community though: It refers to a different concept.

    "Tainted by Muggle parentage", no less.
    Heck, even Muggle-born is a discriminatory term, though not used as such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    To me, it's the intent that matters. In the real world, people can refer to their friends and family with ethnic slurs or other "bad" terms and not have them be offended by it because they know what the person really meant. I can go around calling my best friend a motherfucker or whatever and not have the crap beaten out of me because he or she knows that's just how I talk. But I can't do that with strangers.

    I'm sure there are lots of wizards in Harry Potter who are like this too, but everyone I saw on page/on screen used it to separate themselves/distance themselves from non magic users. I would consider "muggle" to be racist in the sense that wizards see themselves as a separate race of people. It's no less absurd than people claiming that humans in real life are made up of different races, which they aren't.
    ...sadly, there's a large and obvious difference between magical and non-magical people in the HP-verse, and what's more, you're born with this difference.

    On top of all of that, they live in separate societies that don't really interact with each other.

    Under such circumstances, using a term to differentiate between these two types of people is fairly justifiable.

    I agree that the intent behind the word when wizards use it isn't always totally benign, however. Though I could point to plenty of instances where this isn't the case.
    Last edited by Sol M; 01-03-2013 at 10:04 AM.

  12. #42
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    I think it is a stomp for the vamps. The Potter world doesn't stand up in terms of aggressiveness and combat efficacy. They are overwhelmed at the bell for the most part.

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