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  1. #91
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoDaCosta View Post
    didn't love it, but i'm giving it a chance since i believe it can be good in the long term
    still i couldn't care less about black panther's conflict.
    and introducing 3 BLACK kids and showing them as BRATS that get killed in the first issue... really????
    not the best portrayal of diversity of deep characterization...
    What are you saying? Black kids can't be portrayed as brats? I'm sorry, but when the story is set in Wakanda, most the characters are going to be black.

  2. #92
    Futurist Detective TonyStark1012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    Yet, again. Hickman never said that.
    Yes. He did.
    "That's not just "one man"! That's TONY FREAKING STARK. You're intel should've warned us that he was James Bond and "Q" wrapped in the same guy!" Cobra

  3. #93
    Veteran Member John Zaleski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaMic View Post
    So CBR is telling me Deadpool #1 is better than this



    o cbr reviews, u so crazy
    I found deadpool 1 to be extremely entertaining
    Ready for the return of the one and only Spider-Man!!

  4. #94
    I am Rabum Alal Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyStark1012 View Post
    Yes. He did.
    “Black Panther is the lynchpin character of New Avengers. The central character. He’s very important to the Avengers franchise as a whole.” – Tom Brevoort

    “Black Panther is certainly the moral center of New Avengers.” – Jonathan Hickman
    ----------

  5. #95
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Freeman View Post
    ----------
    Even without the interviews, I think they kind of made that point clear in the very first issue.

    Which I guess is a good thing. Allows people to know what they are getting into. If a Panther centric book isn't your thing (and it's certainly my thing), then they're giving you all the warning in the world to stay clear of it. As opposed to say Brubakers Secret Avengers book, where overtime you slowly find out it's sort of just a Steve Rogers book with a supporting cast. Not that I personally minded that either, but I know some people did.

  6. #96
    I am Rabum Alal Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Even without the interviews, I think they kind of made that point clear in the very first issue.

    Which I guess is a good thing. Allows people to know what they are getting into. If a Panther centric book isn't your thing (and it's certainly my thing), then they're giving you all the warning in the world to stay clear of it. As opposed to say Brubakers Secret Avengers book, where overtime you slowly find out it's sort of just a Steve Rogers book with a supporting cast. Not that I personally minded that either, but I know some people did.
    You are right. I guess, I'm hoping that we will be able to talk about that happend in the actual comic rather then something trivial as T'challa being the main protagonist. I don't think it will be as focused as Bru was with Secret, because of what Hickman said about it bring a morality play. Which means othe other New Avengers will have pretty significant roles--it's just that it plays off of the central character. So when Namor was called the Devil himself and T'challa is praying save me--It's for a reasons.

    Black Panther is really no different then Jubilee, Valkerie or Psylocke-- three other characters who are the central lynchpin characters of the team book they are in; the vital character. Just because Jubilee is the central character in XX, that doesn't mean that Storm, Rogue and others will not get love or great moments. It's the same for New Avengers. I saw this clearly during the Next Big Thing Announcement. But I think part of it is thinking their favorite isn't going to get any shine and that's not true. They all will get major shine because of the say he seems to be taking the story.

    If this isn't enough just listen to what Marvel EIC has said repeatedly in his CBR column about NA and Panther. It doesn't get any clearer then “Black Panther is the lynchpin character of New Avengers. The central character." but I guess everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

    Agreed Xpac.

  7. #97
    The Professional marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Even without the interviews, I think they kind of made that point clear in the very first issue.

    Which I guess is a good thing. Allows people to know what they are getting into. If a Panther centric book isn't your thing (and it's certainly my thing), then they're giving you all the warning in the world to stay clear of it. As opposed to say Brubakers Secret Avengers book, where overtime you slowly find out it's sort of just a Steve Rogers book with a supporting cast. Not that I personally minded that either, but I know some people did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Freeman View Post
    You are right. I guess, I'm hoping that we will be able to talk about that happend in the actual comic rather then something trivial as T'challa being the main protagonist. I don't think it will be as focused as Bru was with Secret, because of what Hickman said about it bring a morality play. Which means othe other New Avengers will have pretty significant roles--it's just that it plays off of the central character. So when Namor was called the Devil himself and T'challa is praying save me--It's for a reasons.

    Black Panther is really no different then Jubilee, Valkerie or Psylocke-- three other characters who are the central lynchpin characters of the team book they are in; the vital character. Just because Jubilee is the central character in XX, that doesn't mean that Storm, Rogue and others will not get love or great moments. It's the same for New Avengers. I saw this clearly during the Next Big Thing Announcement. But I think part of it is thinking their favorite isn't going to get any shine and that's not true. They all will get major shine because of the say he seems to be taking the story.

    If this isn't enough just listen to what Marvel EIC has said repeatedly in his CBR column about NA and Panther. It doesn't get any clearer then “Black Panther is the lynchpin character of New Avengers. The central character." but I guess everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

    Agreed Xpac.
    I hope that we aren't all continuing this same debate a year from now. Tony Stark was the lynchpin of the original group but it never focused solely on him. It's only been two issues and things need to be set up. Black Panther is the reason the Illuminati have all been gathered together again and Hickman is a very good and smart enough writer to know that each member will be just as important as the next.
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  8. #98
    Futurist Detective TonyStark1012's Avatar
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    double post.
    "That's not just "one man"! That's TONY FREAKING STARK. You're intel should've warned us that he was James Bond and "Q" wrapped in the same guy!" Cobra

  9. #99
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyStark1012 View Post
    That's true to those books, but here Hickman said himself that T'Challa would be the lead and the vocal point and voice of the book. The others I don't think was stated as such.
    DOES NOT EQUAL

    “Black Panther is the lynchpin character of New Avengers. The central character. He’s very important to the Avengers franchise as a whole.” – Tom Brevoort

    “Black Panther is certainly the moral center of New Avengers.” – Jonathan Hickman

    Also, only one of those quotes is from Hickman.

  10. #100
    Elder Member SilverZeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagreus View Post
    I don't understand the reviewers concerns, obviously this issue is the story's opening salvo, the set up of the big bad, the threat that gets the team back together. Has the reviewer not watched many movies or read many books? He wants the group back together on issue one? Well that's wonderful... but this sets up the stakes, and sets up a threat, also sets up conflict within the group from the get go. Bad review, good issue. I want to see the group interact as well, but, I can wait.
    marvelprince:

    I loved the issue. Not really getting the negative reviews. Its set up, and honestly with T'Challa being so against the formation of the Illuminati in the first place I'm glad the time was taken to illustrate the severity of the threat that would require him to change his mind.
    Our/SZ thoughts exactly....agreed & co-signd!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Even without the interviews, I think they kind of made that point clear in the very first issue.

    Which I guess is a good thing. Allows people to know what they are getting into. If a Panther centric book isn't your thing (and it's certainly my thing), then they're giving you all the warning in the world to stay clear of it. As opposed to say Brubakers Secret Avengers book, where overtime you slowly find out it's sort of just a Steve Rogers book with a supporting cast. Not that I personally minded that either, but I know some people did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Freeman View Post
    You are right. I guess, I'm hoping that we will be able to talk about that happend in the actual comic rather then something trivial as T'challa being the main protagonist. I don't think it will be as focused as Bru was with Secret, because of what Hickman said about it bring a morality play. Which means othe other New Avengers will have pretty significant roles--it's just that it plays off of the central character. So when Namor was called the Devil himself and T'challa is praying save me--It's for a reasons.

    Black Panther is really no different then Jubilee, Valkerie or Psylocke-- three other characters who are the central lynchpin characters of the team book they are in; the vital character. Just because Jubilee is the central character in XX, that doesn't mean that Storm, Rogue and others will not get love or great moments. It's the same for New Avengers. I saw this clearly during the Next Big Thing Announcement. But I think part of it is thinking their favorite isn't going to get any shine and that's not true. They all will get major shine because of the say he seems to be taking the story.

    If this isn't enough just listen to what Marvel EIC has said repeatedly in his CBR column about NA and Panther. It doesn't get any clearer then “Black Panther is the lynchpin character of New Avengers. The central character." but I guess everyone is entitled to believe what they want.

    Agreed Xpac.
    Quote Originally Posted by marvell2100 View Post
    I hope that we aren't all continuing this same debate a year from now. Tony Stark was the lynchpin of the original group but it never focused solely on him. It's only been two issues and things need to be set up. Black Panther is the reason the Illuminati have all been gathered together again and Hickman is a very good and smart enough writer to know that each member will be just as important as the next.
    And here we have three different interpretations of what Freeman's favorite quote means. And only Marvel2100 sounds anywhere near what I think Hickman has explained or what I hope to read.

    And we certainly won't be having this debate anymore a year from now, because it should be clear 12 issues later, EXACTLY what Hickman meant. Of course, if it doesn't meet certain people's expectations or interpretations, I hope they remember this debate, but I doubt it. So, there's really no need for me to waste any more time on this subject. People are going to believe what they _want_ to believe.

  12. #102
    I am Rabum Alal Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    DOES NOT EQUAL




    Also, only one of those quotes is from Hickman.
    Doesn't matter; Tom Brevoort is the editor of the book correct? He's also the Vice-president of publishing. So while you are correct that Tony didn't use the exact correct words, still the premise of his post is 100% correct. Like X-Pac said, it's pretty clear to most people without even reading the interviews. But everyone is entitled to believe what they want and be disappointed when this fact doesn't line up with those beliefs--like the first issue.

    But from what I have read, it's pretty clear. We will just have to agree to disagree and see as the book progress --who is right. But just a though Axel Alonso is pretty much telling you every time he brings up New Avengers and mentions Black Panther.

  13. #103
    I am Rabum Alal Victor Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rheged View Post
    And here we have three different interpretations of what Freeman's favorite quote means. And only Marvel2100 sounds anywhere near what I think Hickman has explained or what I hope to read.

    And we certainly won't be having this debate anymore a year from now, because it should be clear 12 issues later, EXACTLY what Hickman meant. Of course, if it doesn't meet certain people's expectations or interpretations, I hope they remember this debate, but I doubt it. So, there's really no need for me to waste any more time on this subject. People are going to believe what they _want_ to believe.
    Really, it's no different then Jubeliee with X-Men, Val with Fearless, Psylocke with Uncanny X-force. It doesn't mean that others characters will not get shine or moments--that's a overreaction on your part. Other characters will, for example like Storm in X-men and UXF. But in those books the central characters are Jubeliee and Psylocke. That doesn't mean the characters in those books will not get shine. But like T'challa in NA, they are the central characters.

    And I have more then one quote, but why post others when there is no way to parse "lynchpin, central character"?

  14. #104
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Freeman View Post
    Doesn't matter; Tom Brevoort is the editor of the book correct? He's also the Vice-president of publishing. So while you are correct that Tony didn't use the exact correct words, still the premise of his post is 100% correct. Like X-Pac said, it's pretty clear to most people without even reading the interviews. But everyone is entitled to believe what they want and be disappointed when this fact doesn't line up with those beliefs--like the first issue.

    But from what I have read, it's pretty clear. We will just have to agree to disagree and see as the book progress --who is right. But just a though Axel Alonso is pretty much telling you every time he brings up New Avengers and mentions Black Panther.
    Again, no it's not.

    And I can't tell you how many people in this very thread argued that just because the FIRST issue was all about BP, that didn't mean it wasn't a team book. Like I said, all three of you are saying different things about what the book will be.

    Also, Tom B, and Alonso, are routinely lambasted by BP fans for saying lots of things, including saying for several years that there were "big plans" for Black Panther. In fact, it's been pointed out numerous times by BP fans how they've heard this before from the usual suspects and been severely disappointed.

  15. #105
    IMPERIUS REX!!! Rheged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Freeman View Post
    Really, it's no different then Jubeliee with X-Men, Val with Fearless, Psylocke with Uncanny X-force. It doesn't mean that others characters will not get shine or moments--that's a overreaction on your part. Other characters will, for example like Storm in X-men and UXF. But in those books the central characters are Jubeliee and Psylocke. That doesn't mean the characters in those books will not get shine. But like T'challa in NA, they are the central characters.

    And I have more then one quote, but why post others when there is no way to parse "lynchpin, central character"?
    How is me mostly agreeing with Marvel2100 an overreaction?

    Obviously you don't visit the X-boards, or you'd see there's plenty of negative reaction to Psylocke's role in the new UXF.


    Of course there's ways to parse those phrases. They were parsed in the reporting. You're quoting a second hand quote to a liveblog / chatroom on a conference call. CBR was on the conference call and they reported:

    Brevoort described Black Panther as a "lynchpin character" in "New Avengers" and may even be considered the central character of the series.
    But again, it doesn't matter. Clearly, your mind is made up about how it is going to be.

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