Daredevil: End of Days #4 *Spoilers*

[MurderFace]

I love this series. I wish we had a Urich ongoing. I think I'd fail STORYTELLING 101 because I feel like this book is packed with story, but maybe I'm mixing up 'plot' with 'scenes'. However the deeper machinations of the story work, everything fell into place perfectly. And holy cow, that Sienkiwitcz painting of Bullseye...and the reveal of Castle was perfect. Oh, such a great book!

[drakeon]

Im not worried about plot progression when I throughfully enjoy what I ahve read. The character beats and tension is enough to satisfy me as the mystery builds. Its an END story so naturally its set up as a "what happens to so and so in the future" type thing. Its just a fun little series, so Im along for the ride.

[mystmaven]

Has anyone else gotten a chance to read this?

I felt like the story moved forward by a centimeter, and I am really hoping they start ramping things up. I am fine with a slow burn, but we are now halfway through the mini and I want at least a clue to an answer!

It was kind of crazy seeing Bullseye being so hung-up on Elektra still after all this time, and it kind of makes me wonder if she isn't more involved with this Mapone business than she's letting on.

The art is still pretty great, very gritty. With Ulrich's meeting with Frank, I feel like things will finally pick up, and I am interested to see what he can contribute despite declaring himself a dead-end.

I'm much more impressed with this mini than you seem to be. This 4th issue was really good thematically. Really put together well, you may be looking for 'kid stuff', you know, the blow something up mentality. This one though seems to be about something deeper than super powers.

Just great!

[mystmaven]

Im not worried about plot progression when I throughfully enjoy what I ahve read. The character beats and tension is enough to satisfy me as the mystery builds. Its an END story so naturally its set up as a "what happens to so and so in the future" type thing. Its just a fun little series, so Im along for the ride.

Well said! I'm hoping that this isn't a put on what with in this issue someone out there being the Daredevil, wearing the costume apparently.

[mystmaven]

I love this series. I wish we had a Urich ongoing. I think I'd fail STORYTELLING 101 because I feel like this book is packed with story, but maybe I'm mixing up 'plot' with 'scenes'. However the deeper machinations of the story work, everything fell into place perfectly. And holy cow, that Sienkiwitcz painting of Bullseye...and the reveal of Castle was perfect. Oh, such a great book!

I was wondering who it was going to be at the end! I was thinking Hannibal Lector and then wow! The Punisher! Man! There is that new Punisher out about the Avengers going after him... so I'm wondering if this it tied into it, Tony Stark was going to create a Prison for the Punisher... which means that Castle would be the one to Kill Iron Man. He sure would need to! That would be a great thing for Marvel to consider.

[theDarkestKnight]

And how does any of that actually move the plot forward? It gives us possibly more questions, without even beginning to offer answers. We're still no closer to solving the mystery of Mapone, or the other Daredevil that's stalking Ulrich.

Thats OKAY! because the book is awesome!

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I'm much more impressed with this mini than you seem to be. This 4th issue was really good thematically. Really put together well, you may be looking for 'kid stuff', you know, the blow something up mentality. This one though seems to be about something deeper than super powers.

Just great!

Obviously, why didn't I think of that.

Nowhere did I say that I wasn't still really enjoying this book, and I even said I enjoy slow burn. I just expressed a desire for something more to start happening with this being the fourth issue in terms of story and plot progression. My concern is that we're going to get all of our relevant stuff in the last two issues, and that it will feel rushed. I loved LOST, one of the slowest burns in history, but at least they offered something intriguing to the plot every few episodes.

All I was asking for was a start to the answers, not explosions or action. I love the character beats, I just wished they offered a tad more substance than "Oh, I guess this is where they are now."


I love how the answer to everything seems to be "oh, you don't like this as much as I do? Obviously you aren't mature enough to appreciate it."

Thats OKAY! because the book is awesome!

Yes, I will agree that the book is awesome.

[Darth Tigris]

Yet another great issue in mini that wasn't really on my radar as much as it should have been.

For those of you wanting an answer to what 'Mapone' is after first reading it in issue one, you best give it up because that's not going to be settled until the end (if at all). That's the narrative thrust, but it's not what the books about. There's a lot more going on here and that stuff is fleshing the series out.

Only 4 more issues of this? :(

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I think that people desperate to figure out what "Mapone" is need to go watch Citizen Kane. Seriously--aside from being considered the greatest movie in American history (your mileage may vary, but the American Film Institute puts it as #1)--Bendis has made it clear that it's his model for DD:EOD.

Superficially, they match so far. Both stories open with the title character dying and uttering a mystery word before expiring. Both feature a reporter trying to solve the mystery of the word, and piecing together the character's life, by interviewing those close to the deceased. So far, so good--although in terms of storytelling, I think the interviews are where Bendis is failing and why so many of us are bored with the pacing.*

Anyway, an analysis of Citizen Kane's "Rosebud" may--I emphasize may--give us insight into "Mapone." Citizen Kane spoilers to follow--but really, do you need to be spoiled on "Rosebud"?

"Rosebud" turned out to be Charles Foster Kane's long-lost boyhood sled--a symbol of his lost childhood and innocence. Long story short, it summed up why the guy spent his life accumulating wealth, power, women, etc., and not being satisfied by any of it--he was trying to recover the only time in his life when he was happy. Now, there's a few rules with how "Rosebud" was developed in the movie--let's see how they might apply to DD:EOD.

1) "Rosebud" wasn't revealed until the end of the movie. It was the linchpin of the whole story, so of course they couldn't reveal what it was in the first 5 minutes. That would have ruined the climax. So we shouldn't be surprised if "Mapone" isn't explained until the end of issue #8 either.

2) "Rosebud" is only known to the title character. That was also part of the film's mystery--the reporter was trying to get inside Kane's head to figure out what it was. He failed at this, because none of Kane's friends and acquaintances knew either. So, again, we shouldn't be surprised that nobody knows what it is--not Matt's friends, lovers, or enemies. I think we're supposed to take Nick Fury--a guy who shouldn't not know anything--at his word when he said he didn't know. (Caveat: I don't know if Bullseye knew what it was either. From his actions in #1 and #4, I guess we're supposed to take it that he did, but that remains to be seen.)

3) "Rosebud" was seen early in the story--not that we knew that. If I recall correctly, "Rosebud" was seen pretty early in the film when we had a flashback to Kane as a boy playing with the sled. We didn't see the name label, but if you can't watch the movie without watching that scene and saying, "Oh, there's Rosebud." If I had to bet, I'd say that we saw "Mapone" somewhere in the first issue.

4) The reporter never figures out what "Rosebud" is. This doesn't really give us any clues, other than reminding us that "Rosebud" was something so obscure that it was beyond the reporter's reach. My guess is that Urich won't figure it out (but the reader will).

5) Here's the big one: "Rosebud" was the defining trait of the title character. As I said, it was representative of his lost childhood and happiness. It was not some dirty, dark secret or cache of treasure. So, I have to wonder...if Matt Murdock is our Kane, then what represents the lost essence of Matt's childhood?

Earlier in this thread, I joked that "Mapone" could have been the brand of boxing gloves Matt's father used. I'm now wondering if I'm actually close to something there. My sense of Daredevil's history is that the last time he was really, really happy--other than when he was in college with Elektra--was when he was living with his dad. Matt's innocence was lost when Jack Murdock was murdered. Before that, Jack Murdock always warned Matt not to be a fighter, and he pushed Matt towards law so he wouldn't have to be a boxer like him.

I'm wondering if Matt's fixation on fighting--including coming out of retirement to fight Bullseye one last time--wasn't one last homage to Jack Murdock. Remember, all of Matt's past loves have been emphasizing that Matt wouldn't quit fighting people, even though it was going to get him killed. Maybe he wasn't fighting Bullseye in the end, so much as trying to relive Jack Murdock's final boxing match and go without quitting. So, yeah...maybe "Mapone" will end up being the label on Jack Murdock's gloves, turned up among his personal effects, in place of a big "EVERLAST" logo.

This still doesn't explain what, if any, connection Bullseye had to "Mapone," but I hope I'm onto something here.

* - My chief complaint about this story is that Bendis has so far not really developed the time between the Kingpin and Matt's murders. In Citizen Kane, each interview developed a chunk of Kane's backstory through flashbacks. Here, Bendis has pretty much limited the interviews to "whatever happened to [character x]?" He could have given up some of the decompression by at least having each character do a "the last time I saw Matt was..." accompanied by a flashback. The best we got of that was with Echo, but the visits with Elektra, Nick Fury, Typhoid Mary, etc. were otherwise wasted.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I think that people desperate to figure out what "Mapone" is need to go watch Citizen Kane. Seriously--aside from being considered the greatest movie in American history (your mileage may vary, but the American Film Institute puts it as #1)--Bendis has made it clear that it's his model for DD:EOD.
.

So far this book, while being good, is a very poor copy of Citizen Kane.

[mystmaven]

I love how the answer to everything seems to be "oh, you don't like this as much as I do? Obviously you aren't mature enough to appreciate it."

No I didn't mean for you to take it like that, I may have been a bit overboard on my reply.

[mystmaven]

Yet another great issue in mini that wasn't really on my radar as much as it should have been.

For those of you wanting an answer to what 'Mapone' is after first reading it in issue one, you best give it up because that's not going to be settled until the end (if at all). That's the narrative thrust, but it's not what the books about. There's a lot more going on here and that stuff is fleshing the series out.

Only 4 more issues of this? :(

I feel you friend, about only 4 more dang! That would be interesting if someone involved in this mini leaked the Mapone deal online... what a scandal it would be!

[FriendRoss]

I think that people desperate to figure out what "Mapone" is need to go watch Citizen Kane. Seriously--aside from being considered the greatest movie in American history (your mileage may vary, but the American Film Institute puts it as #1)--Bendis has made it clear that it's his model for DD:EOD.

Superficially, they match so far. Both stories open with the title character dying and uttering a mystery word before expiring. Both feature a reporter trying to solve the mystery of the word, and piecing together the character's life, by interviewing those close to the deceased. So far, so good--although in terms of storytelling, I think the interviews are where Bendis is failing and why so many of us are bored with the pacing.*

Anyway, an analysis of Citizen Kane's "Rosebud" may--I emphasize may--give us insight into "Mapone." Citizen Kane spoilers to follow--but really, do you need to be spoiled on "Rosebud"?

"Rosebud" turned out to be Charles Foster Kane's long-lost boyhood sled--a symbol of his lost childhood and innocence. Long story short, it summed up why the guy spent his life accumulating wealth, power, women, etc., and not being satisfied by any of it--he was trying to recover the only time in his life when he was happy. Now, there's a few rules with how "Rosebud" was developed in the movie--let's see how they might apply to DD:EOD.

1) "Rosebud" wasn't revealed until the end of the movie. It was the linchpin of the whole story, so of course they couldn't reveal what it was in the first 5 minutes. That would have ruined the climax. So we shouldn't be surprised if "Mapone" isn't explained until the end of issue #8 either.

2) "Rosebud" is only known to the title character. That was also part of the film's mystery--the reporter was trying to get inside Kane's head to figure out what it was. He failed at this, because none of Kane's friends and acquaintances knew either. So, again, we shouldn't be surprised that nobody knows what it is--not Matt's friends, lovers, or enemies. I think we're supposed to take Nick Fury--a guy who shouldn't not know anything--at his word when he said he didn't know. (Caveat: I don't know if Bullseye knew what it was either. From his actions in #1 and #4, I guess we're supposed to take it that he did, but that remains to be seen.)

3) "Rosebud" was seen early in the story--not that we knew that. If I recall correctly, "Rosebud" was seen pretty early in the film when we had a flashback to Kane as a boy playing with the sled. We didn't see the name label, but if you can't watch the movie without watching that scene and saying, "Oh, there's Rosebud." If I had to bet, I'd say that we saw "Mapone" somewhere in the first issue.

4) The reporter never figures out what "Rosebud" is. This doesn't really give us any clues, other than reminding us that "Rosebud" was something so obscure that it was beyond the reporter's reach. My guess is that Urich won't figure it out (but the reader will).

5) Here's the big one: "Rosebud" was the defining trait of the title character. As I said, it was representative of his lost childhood and happiness. It was not some dirty, dark secret or cache of treasure. So, I have to wonder...if Matt Murdock is our Kane, then what represents the lost essence of Matt's childhood?

Earlier in this thread, I joked that "Mapone" could have been the brand of boxing gloves Matt's father used. I'm now wondering if I'm actually close to something there. My sense of Daredevil's history is that the last time he was really, really happy--other than when he was in college with Elektra--was when he was living with his dad. Matt's innocence was lost when Jack Murdock was murdered. Before that, Jack Murdock always warned Matt not to be a fighter, and he pushed Matt towards law so he wouldn't have to be a boxer like him.

I'm wondering if Matt's fixation on fighting--including coming out of retirement to fight Bullseye one last time--wasn't one last homage to Jack Murdock. Remember, all of Matt's past loves have been emphasizing that Matt wouldn't quit fighting people, even though it was going to get him killed. Maybe he wasn't fighting Bullseye in the end, so much as trying to relive Jack Murdock's final boxing match and go without quitting. So, yeah...maybe "Mapone" will end up being the label on Jack Murdock's gloves, turned up among his personal effects, in place of a big "EVERLAST" logo.

This still doesn't explain what, if any, connection Bullseye had to "Mapone," but I hope I'm onto something here.

* - My chief complaint about this story is that Bendis has so far not really developed the time between the Kingpin and Matt's murders. In Citizen Kane, each interview developed a chunk of Kane's backstory through flashbacks. Here, Bendis has pretty much limited the interviews to "whatever happened to [character x]?" He could have given up some of the decompression by at least having each character do a "the last time I saw Matt was..." accompanied by a flashback. The best we got of that was with Echo, but the visits with Elektra, Nick Fury, Typhoid Mary, etc. were otherwise wasted.

i would call this genius analysis.... if the analysis wasn't about a comic book


i think you are dead on with your conclusions



mapone

[Spiderx3000]

I love this series. I wish we had a Urich ongoing. I think I'd fail STORYTELLING 101 because I feel like this book is packed with story, but maybe I'm mixing up 'plot' with 'scenes'. However the deeper machinations of the story work, everything fell into place perfectly. And holy cow, that Sienkiwitcz painting of Bullseye...and the reveal of Castle was perfect. Oh, such a great book!

I'm pretty sure that the Bullseye painted art was by Alex Maleev.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Finally got this today. NOW I feel like the story is finally picking up, although I still think that issues #2 and #3 had a serious lack of progression.

Given where the Punisher is at in this story, I'd like to believe that DD:EOD, Punisher: The End, and Hulk: The End all take place in the same universe (officially, they don't). They all sort of thematically fit with each other so far.