New Avengers #1 *Spoilers*

[Rheged]

Its the costume design I think and if that was the case she has new powers unless, the Black Swans get other powers. Wonder if they'll be AU versions of the Illuminati's significant others e.g. Clea, Sue, Medusa, Storm etc..

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._4_Solicit.jpg

Now, that would be awesome! I would love to see another Lady Dorma! And Medusa. And Clea. Even Madame Masque!

Yes, the costume design plays a huge role. Also all the 'maybes' about Emma appearing. But she also has that diamond state coolness. Perhaps, she's Emma and Scott's daughter in AU?

Finally got round to reading this, REALLY enjoyed it. The art was much better on the page than in the previews; Black Swan is AWESOME (I also like she is one of many, like T'Challa). Am I the only one who thinks this is an alternate Black Panther? Massively enjoyable, can't wait for the next issue.

No. I didn't get the vibe at all. Why do you think that?

[Victor Freeman]

Yes, yet again you are leaping over the word "IF," as well as making a huge assumption that 'morality tale' = a medieval play with very specific roles.




You got that right. Try moving out of that unreasonable position of yours.




Not agreeing with your opinion or your particular and intractable interpretation of those statements by the writer and editor doesn't mean anyone is denial. I think most folks understand that Marvel is pushing Black Panther on this book. What that exactly means, everyone has an opinion on.

The only thing I do agree with you on, is we're done here.

I think you are totally missing the context of why he said IF. The prior messages he told the questioner that T'challa was the Moral Anchor which is diffenent from being the moral compass. Hickman told the skeptical questioner if it's a morality play, then being the Moral Anchor is the role you want your favorite character. That's the context of that quote.

My position is unreasonable because I'm following what the editor and writer have said? Ok.

[Caio]

If Fera out, the team is practically perfect

[T'Kyl]

No. I didn't get the vibe at all. Why do you think that?[/QUOTE]

Not sure why, but I had that vibe from just the preview images. It might make for a good device to really make us pay attention.

This in in response to Rhegeds question of Kieran Frost

[Rheged]

No. I didn't get the vibe at all. Why do you think that?

Not sure why, but I had that vibe from just the preview images. It might make for a good device to really make us pay attention.[/QUOTE]

Okay. That's sort of the same way with me thinking she's connected to Emma. Other than the costume / look, it's more of a feeling.

I'm wondering how / if she's connected to the Builders in Avengers? A Black Swan is an changing event, but here she seems like a completely destroying event. If she was the agent of great change, sort of like the Garden, then she could be another system sent out by the Builders eons ago.

[Monty_Cristo]

it could be an alternate universe black panther. that manifold-esque individual was a white guy, afterall.

[Juggernaut Punch]

I'm wondering how / if she's connected to the Builders in Avengers? A Black Swan is an changing event, but here she seems like a completely destroying event. If she was the agent of great change, sort of like the Garden, then she could be another system sent out by the Builders eons ago.

According to Hickman there is a connection between what's going on in New Avengers and Avengers, we'll find out what it is (or at least clues) in Avengers #4.

[Rheged]

According to Hickman there is a connection between what's going on in New Avengers and Avengers, we'll find out what it is (or at least clues) in Avengers #4.

Yes, he's said it's actually the same story, presumably told from different points. One way to look at it, might be what happens at the beginning of the cycle, in Avengers, and what happens at the end of the cycle, NA -- Hence the Alpha and Omega symbols.

Hey Juggernaut Punch... what do you know about Nibiru?

[T'Kyl]

Maybe we have a Finnegan's Wake thing going on here with diologue much easier to decipher? 'Cept for the Sumerian of course. Thanks agian for the translation JP.

[Rheged]

Maybe we have a Finnegan's Wake thing going on here with diologue much easier to decipher? 'Cept for the Sumerian of course. Thanks agian for the translation JP.

O_O

Not quite the cycle I meant.

The Burning Cycle, the Ragnarok cycle, etc. all have a destruction and a resurrection. It's a cycle, so maybe it isn't strictly linear, and the systems for each are both out there working their way around the worlds and galaxies, & alternate universes.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Maybe we have a Finnegan's Wake thing going on here with diologue much easier to decipher? 'Cept for the Sumerian of course. Thanks agian for the translation JP.

No problem ;)

If we get any more Sumerian or other Mesopotamian languages in New Avengers, I'll do my best to translate it.

Yes, he's said it's actually the same story, presumably told from different points. One way to look at it, might be what happens at the beginning of the cycle, in Avengers, and what happens at the end of the cycle, NA -- Hence the Alpha and Omega symbols.

Hey Juggernaut Punch... what do you know about Nibiru?

Yeah that sounds about right. It goes well with what Hickman said about Avengers being about life and New Avengers being about death.

In Babylonian astronomy it's the point of the summer solstice, meaning it's the highest point in the paths of the planets. In Babylonian mythology, it is the seat of the god Marduk (the principal god of Babylon, kind of like their Zeus or Odin) who shepherds the other stars from there and is usually referred to as "the star of Marduk". It also has a corresponding constellation. Jupiter was sometimes also referred to as Nibiru (Jupiter is the planet associated with Marduk).

[Rheged]

No problem ;)

If we get any more Sumerian or other Mesopotamian languages in New Avengers, I'll do my best to translate it.

Yeah that sounds about right. It goes well with what Hickman said about Avengers being about life and New Avengers being about death.

In Babylonian astronomy it's the point of the summer solstice, meaning it's the highest point in the paths of the planets. In Babylonian mythology, it is the seat of the god Marduk (the principal god of Babylon, kind of like their Zeus or Odin) who shepherds the other stars from there and is usually referred to as "the star of Marduk". It also has a corresponding constellation. Jupiter was sometimes also referred to as Nibiru (Jupiter is the planet associated with Marduk).

Coolness. Thanks. Googling brought it up, but the reference I found was a doomsday prophecy, but it appears it was based off a hinky translation and alien abduction theories. LOL!

So is there a seat or planet associated with the winter solstice?


I'm thinking this issue might actually take place chronologically before Avengers #1, based off Steve's bad dreams.

Also, any thoughts on the overlapping circles symbol on the title page? I'm thinking it's pretty straightforward -- two worlds colliding / meeting. Which sort of references Manifold's symbol, two separate worlds / places he transverses via the segment that connects them.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Coolness. Thanks. Googling brought it up, but the reference I found was a doomsday prophecy, but it appears it was based off a hinky translation and alien abduction theories. LOL!

So is there a seat or planet associated with the winter solstice?

I'm thinking this issue might actually take place chronologically before Avengers #1, based off Steve's bad dreams.

Yeah, the name Nibiru was given to a hypothetical planet beyond Neptune that supposedly orbited the Sun. The scientist that "discovered" it thought that aliens from that planet visited Earth and created Sumerian culture or something. Then (like with most such things) a new age-y doomsday thing started up around it.

Nah, but the Babylonian new year used to be celebrated during the winter solstice, commemorating Marduk's (who is a sun god) victory over the primordial chaos and darkness.

[Kieran_Frost]

No. I didn't get the vibe at all. Why do you think that?

My reasons are VERY minor, but:
a) the use of "Manifold" (a character Hickman is using in Avengers... this can't be a coincidence) and the symbol on his chest, against something we saw in Avengers
b) the fact she isn't "Black Swan" she is A Black Swan (as in not her codename, but a title); coupled with Hickman making it clear (in the very same issue) T'Challa hasn't been the only Black Panther, but there have been many before him. I mean, considering that character died, it was completely unnecessary to tie his ancestry to the Black Panther line, unless Hickman was making a point.

It's a vague idea, but one I like.

Great observation. I was thinking the same. Black Swan is awesome. I feel for AU Manifold as he didn't stand a chance with her.

Not sure why, but I had that vibe from just the preview images. It might make for a good device to really make us pay attention.

YEY! I'm not alone in this idea.

[Clea]

@chariset

Who has Dr. Strange faced that is Sumerian or has ties to Sumer?


I know someone else suggested it waay back when the previews first hit, I think Exodus Cloak, but now that we know this Manifold was an AU, I'm definitely getting that Emma Frost vibe from Black Swan. Is it just the costume?

Dr. Strange fought against the ancient Mesopotamian god Ningal (aka 'Kinyas' in Sumeria) and also against Lilith (who has a Sumerian connection). There might be others.