Superman #15 Discussion/Spoilers

[Kymeric]

I think I've seen it mentioned on this thread and a couple of others; there was an earlier issue that spoke about Oracle specifically in the same narrative tone, referring to his servant (was it the Annual?) so I'm not sure, but it's certainly crossed my mind, and others'.

I don't particularly care why it is there -- I like grandiose narration. I just think it's a bit awkward sometimes, here.

Zero and the first issue had the herald with a trumpet guy?

[Auguste Dupin]

Zero and the first issue had the herald with a trumpet guy?

The first issue I don't think so, but issue 0, yes, he appears at the end of the issue and comment that Krypton may have a chance to live again, and that it is without precedent in the story of the universe or something.

[AJBopp]

One thing that puzzles me is his power level. He's able to swat away Superman who himself is powerful enough to bench press the weight of the planet for five full days. That's immensely powerful. Could H'el be Rao made flesh? How else could such power level be explained?

it doesn't seem to take immense power to swat away Superman. An Atlantean did it last issue of Aquaman, and somebody else did it repeatedly in a couple issues of Superman a few months ago. It's Supermans power level that I find most puzzling.

[Sacred Knight]

Lex seems to suggest the possibility that H'el is in actuality no more powerful than Superman, potential-wise. Just that he's more willing to use the full force of his power as he has no cares for this world. The old Superman-holds-back trope coming up again, in other words.

[Superlad93]

Lex seems to suggest the possibility that H'el is in actuality no more powerful than Superman, potential-wise. Just that he's more willing to use the full force of his power as he has no cares for this world. The old Superman-holds-back trope coming up again, in other words.

Yes but in a new and interesting way because it's not that Superman is holding back the power he has but that he may not want to gain too much more power. Guys like Helspont and H'el are making him rethink things. As we saw in issue 13, Superman know he needs more power to face these guys.

I think this is a really good way to link us as the reader to Superman's powers.

[DochaDocha]

Lex seems to suggest the possibility that H'el is in actuality no more powerful than Superman, potential-wise. Just that he's more willing to use the full force of his power as he has no cares for this world. The old Superman-holds-back trope coming up again, in other words.

I'm generally in favor of a stronger, more powerful Superman. The idea that he can be as powerful as H'El, as he's presented, does sound intriguing, but this is one case in which I think it's better that he's not holding back and probably doesn't have that kind of potential, or at least can't reach that potential any time soon, e.g. not within a normal human's lifetime.

[Darkspellmaster]

I'm generally in favor of a stronger, more powerful Superman. The idea that he can be as powerful as H'El, as he's presented, does sound intriguing, but this is one case in which I think it's better that he's not holding back and probably doesn't have that kind of potential, or at least can't reach that potential any time soon, e.g. not within a normal human's lifetime.

I prefer balanced myself. Too powerful and you run into "What do we throw at him" and the early image issue of charcters that were way to strong and couldn't go past a certain issue. I just hope this isn't going into the darker area of superman. Although that would be interesting in a weird way, superman with pheonix force level powers.

[brettc1]

it doesn't seem to take immense power to swat away Superman. An Atlantean did it last issue of Aquaman, and somebody else did it repeatedly in a couple issues of Superman a few months ago. It's Supermans power level that I find most puzzling.

Well never let it be said I didnt like to argue both sides.

Assuming that Superman can actually life the planet [dumb] his mass is not proportianate to that level of strength. So if you hit him hard enough, he will go flying. He just wont be seriously injured. Like hitting a pin with a bowling ball - big bang, no damage.

[Zoch]

A good issue the art was great I enjoyed the characterization of Lex came across both scary and damm well smart he much better here then was in action comics same goes for Superman also written be also smart one didn't like was how Superboy was written seemed lack confidence compared how he written in own book also liked the that Lodbell had a Superman and Wonder Woman mention, overall thought was good issue.

[manduck37]

I'm a little torn on my feelings about this issue. Over all, I enjoyed. Though it did strike me as kind of pointless. It seemed to me like there wasn't enough going on in the H'el arc to fill all the crossover issues, so we took a little side trip to see what Lex is doing. There were a lot of wasted pages on the prison defenses. Ultimately the visit with Lex was pointless, as Superman didn't learn anything he didn't already know. Superman was just going to call the League anyway, to break into the Fortress. So why were here? Filler. At least that's what it felt like.

That being said, the portion with Lex was such an interesting take on the character that I really didn't mind. It's been a while since we've seen this version of Lex and it was pretty great. The brilliance combined with the arrogance and obsessive behavior was just great. Lex's interaction with Superboy was pretty intense. I like that while Lex hates Superman, he still respects him almost as an equal (the highest praise you can get form Lex). I love the idea that Lex is only in prison because he wants to be.

Lobdell is a little incosistent with his writing. We get some strange "superdick" moments again, which I could really do without. Lobdell still needs to learn that there is a difference between badass and total jerk. The romantic relationship with Superman and Wonder Woman felt really forced. Not just with the "beloved" that so many have commented on, but with all the content of those dialogue boxes (can't wait to take her in his arms, etc.). Though Lobdell does treat the characters with respect. We haven't seen Superman being treated with respect in quite some time, before the Nu52 and during those bad Jurgens/Giffen issues. Lobdell has no problem with wild sci-fi concepts and making sure Superman and his cast are as epic and powerful as they should be, and that's awesome. He has no problem establishing Superman as the most powerful of heroes physically and mentally. He makes Lex seem like a threat that only Superman can handle, with an off the charts intellect. I love that kind of stuff. So depsite some missteps here and there, he really seems to love these characters and treats them like the icons they're supposed to be.

[dupersuper]

Lex seems to suggest the possibility that H'el is in actuality no more powerful than Superman, potential-wise. Just that he's more willing to use the full force of his power as he has no cares for this world. The old Superman-holds-back trope coming up again, in other words.

I actually like that trope. It makes sense.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I enjoyed this issue in its entirety. The H'el story arc has caught my attention that's for sure. At first, I thought he was Scott's version of a disguised Brainiac until further reading proved otherwise. One thing that puzzles me is his power level. He's able to swat away Superman who himself is powerful enough to bench press the weight of the planet for five full days. That's immensely powerful. Could H'el be Rao made flesh? How else could such power level be explained?

My guess is that H'El has been exposed to a more intense solar radiation, including suns other than yellow (blue comes to mind). Also, it is possible, given what Luthor said, that Superman has the potential to reach this level. But either he's holding back (consciously or unconsciously), or he's just not there yet.

In JL#14 there seems a reference to Rao, right? He was killed by the Godslayer. So who killed Rao? Who created the Godslayer? Someone whose name was so evil it would not be mentioned. H'el sure looks like a Frankenstein monster...I thought he was Bizarro too. But who could have the power to take the flesh of Rao? Hmm, be very interesting if these things are tied in together somehow.

Well, I'll have to reread JL #14. Don't remember that part (it would be interesting indeed if those things were linked). And in the Lobdell interviews, we learned that he was going to be the new Bizarro. But his origin was so different to the Bizarro we know that DC told Lobdell to leave this guy as an entirely new character.