Superman #15 Discussion/Spoilers

[adkal]

-I'm not too aware with how his abilities work this, and I suppose Superman isn't really either (unless Supergirl knew specifics and mentionned them to Superman off panel in issue 6).

Superman doesn't need to be so aware, though, considering the previous issue established that Superboy's powers did not work the same way as Superman's, and the 'compressive' effect of the suit was unexpected, too. Those two points alone should have made him wary.

Frankly, he (Lobdell) should have just left it to the suit - it's purpose is protection...

[Auguste Dupin]

Superman doesn't need to be so aware, though, considering the previous issue established that Superboy's powers did not work the same way as Superman's, and the 'compressive' effect of the suit was unexpected, too. Those two points alone should have made him wary.

Frankly, he (Lobdell) should have just left it to the suit - it's purpose is protection...

I guess he could have done that.

[adkal]

-Superman isn't supposed to know Tim is on the team. Superboy isn't supposed to know Superman knows Tim. Superman hears SB talking about some team of superkids and dismiss the idea of bringing them along in a battle against a superpowered Kryptonian where they could die. I fail to see what is problematic about him not wanting to involve teenagers he never heard about in a possibly lethal situation, where he can bring along a team of trusted adults to help him.

Superman isn't supposed to know who Kon is, but they've been playing so loose with the narrative over the past year that some choose to overlook that. Apparently, he didn't even know Kon existed until Kara told him about him.

Thor, Iron Man, AntMan, Hulk and The Wasp all had adventures before the Avengers started, meaning they were as experimented as anybody else when the team started. Plus, they were adults. As in, you know, having reached the age of majority.

'Adventures' does not equate to being 'superheroes' or 'experienced'. Kid Flash has had adventures. Bunker has, too. Tim as well. When the driving age is 14-16 (depending on the State) then leaning on 'age of majority' falls flat, in my opinion. If you can trust and licence someone to drive a car, well...

*shrug*

-Batman has more experience than anybody else at this,

Based on his recent performances, that's arguable...

and the fact he's hunted by the police has nothing to do with it (every single superhero were at that point).

Superman no longer was (post-Collector incident). Lex's military links, however, were another matter.

I fail to see how Green Lantern is separate, except that he was already supervised by somebody else,

That's how he is separate

Aquaman is a king,

Was he at the time, or was that afterwards?

and Diana was involved in superheroics too and had a partial support from the US army.

Not according to the JL issues and the comments about her use of the sword...

Only Cyborg is contentious in this version of the League, but I suppose you could argue that the rest of the League was supposed to take care of the "unsupervised" part, and that they didn't exactly choose the roster as much as seeing it being imposed to them by the public.

Which they willfully upheld and pretty much avoided developing or nurturing, hence the trust issues 5 years down the line...

Plus, he's the one who repelled Darkseid and his minions from Earth in the end.

Using tech no one knew the workings of - and therein lies the danger...

[Auguste Dupin]

Superman isn't supposed to know who Kon is, but they've been playing so loose with the narrative over the past year that some choose to overlook that. Apparently, he didn't even know Kon existed until Kara told him about him.



'Adventures' does not equate to being 'superheroes' or 'experienced'. Kid Flash has had adventures. Bunker has, too. Tim as well. When the driving age is 14-16 (depending on the State) then leaning on 'age of majority' falls flat, in my opinion. If you can trust and licence someone to drive a car, well...

*shrug*




Based on his recent performances, that's arguable...



Superman no longer was (post-Collector incident). Lex's military links, however, were another matter.



That's how he is separate



Was he at the time, or was that afterwards?



Not according to the JL issues and the comments about her use of the sword...



Which they willfully upheld and pretty much avoided developing or nurturing, hence the trust issues 5 years down the line...



Using tech no one knew the workings of - and therein lies the danger...

-I think Kon's birth is recent, hence why Superman never heard about him.

- I forgot how insane the US was. Still, at 15, you're supposed to be at school and to listen to your parents.

- The fact he started at least one year before anyone isn't.

- But he was at some point. And even he wasn't exactly "trusted".

- Yeah, but in a good way then, since he has people that can actually speak in his favor.

- He says he's the King of Atlantis in the opening arc.

- She has the support of Trevor at least.

-Depends what you mean by "supervising". Being around to set things right when he screws up is a form of supervisation.

-But not a danger you can set aside by kicking him off the team. I mean, who's to say it won't one day reactivates itself spontaniously and bring back the soldiers of Apokolips? If that happens, it's best to have some superheroes around to do something about it.

[LoneNecromancer]

I have too much time on my hands.



So here's my favourite facial expressions of Lex in this issue.

[adkal]

-I think Kon's birth is recent, hence why Superman never heard about him.

How recent?

The Teen Titans' arc took place over a period of months, Justice League has covered a year or so, Batman has also had time jumps...

- I forgot how insane the US was. Still, at 15, you're supposed to be at school and to listen to your parents.

Psh, plenty of kids play hookey

- The fact he started at least one year before anyone isn't.

And Kal's adventures with the Legion..?

- But he was at some point. And even he wasn't exactly "trusted".

For the first 6 months or so - and that was understandable as an initial reaction. Afterwards, he was given the key to the city...

- Yeah, but in a good way then, since he has people that can actually speak in his favor.

Perhaps, but would any Earth-based legal system recognise the jurisdiction of the Guardians? hmm?

- He says he's the King of Atlantis in the opening arc.

Newly appointed? Was he no longer initially rejected because of his 'half-breed' status?

- She has the support of Trevor at least.

um...yeah, but that's not really saying much. He's still very low on the overall pecking order....

-Depends what you mean by "supervising". Being around to set things right when he screws up is a form of supervisation.

-But not a danger you can set aside by kicking him off the team. I mean, who's to say it won't one day reactivates itself spontaniously and bring back the soldiers of Apokolips? If that happens, it's best to have some superheroes around to do something about it.

Not disagreeing with you on them keeping tabs on Vic - for them not to do so would be a scary position.

The thing is, they're (generally) all pretty green when they teamed-up. If they had a couple of years of experience each rather than collectively...(and if we ignore the Legion (being from the future doesn't necessarily make them 'better' ;) )

[adkal]

If Lex has been watching H'El watch Superman and H'El knows and has observed Superman when he has spent time as Clark...

So no one thinks this is something to consider..?

[Lexrules]

I have too much time on my hands.



So here's my favourite facial expressions of Lex in this issue.

Lex appears to have gone off the deep end just a little here. I think I'm going to pick this one up. I'm very curious to see what he says to Superman and how he got so scared.

[adkal]

Lex appears to have gone off the deep end just a little here. I think I'm going to pick this one up. I'm very curious to see what he says to Superman and how he got so scared.

'Scared' or 'scarred'?

You won't find out how he got scarred...

[misslane38]

Jesus. Stop sounding so bitter. Why haven't you been posting up all the great reviews of the JL #15 Clark and Diana stuff? You really only do stuff to try to suit yourself bias. What is WW? Chopped Liver? Or is it only Lois should get all the sterling intros? It's the new status quo and he and Diana are a couple now. Get use to it. She is going to be a part of his life and he has been attracted to her for years and it seems their relationship has progressed from a kiss to the time shared in Smallville. Why the heck shouldn't he say something about her?

It amazes me how you can assume I'm bitter when my complaints are about how poorly Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship is being written. There's nothing to be bitter about when the writing is this laughably bad. Perhaps you're the one who is bitter that I'm pointing it out? I'd love Wonder Woman to get a sterling introduction because she deserves it. But, unfortunately, Lobdell's narrative introduction in which Wonder Woman wishes to call Superman her beloved takes place only a day or so after her new boyfriend was still jealous over Lois moving in with Jonathan. Superman and Lobdell should have said something about Wonder Woman. I never said that he shouldn't have. What I'm saying is that of all the things that could have and should have been said, what Lobdell wrote was awful.

JL comes out before SM. Johns and Lobdell maybe don't exchange scripts but it is more than likely all the writers have a jist what is going on and will fit the status quo in their stories. Lobdell is on record to say he is interested in writing/progressing the status quo, not showing how it started. That is Johns job. It's no more difficult to get than what goes on in many titles across the DCU and the new 52. It's up to you to nit pick if you want though.

First of all, calling the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship "status quo" as shorthand is a surefire way to make it sound utterly unromantic. At least "power couple" has a bit of a ring to it compared to the sterile sounding "status quo." Second, I will nitpick because the lack of consistency in the writing of this relationship is really starting to undermine characterization at this point. And, most importantly, these continuity issues are highlighting all of the reasons why any relationship Superman and Wonder Woman have as individuals should probably be confined to their own solo titles where they can be more effectively managed by editors.

And misslane...your borderline fanatical desire to harp on anyone who even remotely likes the Clark/Diana dynamic is becoming tiresome. Lois & Clark is one of the great love stories. It's also one of the greatest played-out love stories. It will be back. But arguing (you don't debate, you argue; this is where you'll reply with "tell me where I said..." as so many of your posts do) is only going to get you on someones ignore list. If you want people to converse with you, you can't treat them like children. Please, for the sake of this board, try to remember that.

I've asked people to reference my previous posts in discussion because my positions are so frequently mischaracterized. You should also note that I did not have a problem with anyone liking the Clark/Diana dynamic. I had a problem with someone who likes the Clark/Diana dynamic celebrating poor writing for the couple. It makes no sense to me to praise the writing of a relationship you love when it is so poor. Fans of the "ultimate power couple" should demand better. Hopefully, Superman #16 will be an improvement.

That being said, I think this thread has moved on from this topic by now. If anyone wants to talk about these things further, then feel free to send me a private message.

[Mr. Holmes]

Lex appears to have gone off the deep end just a little here. I think I'm going to pick this one up. I'm very curious to see what he says to Superman and how he got so scared.

Lex rules in this issue.

[ForeverYoung8]

That being said, I think this thread has moved on from this topic by now.

If you truly felt this way, you wouldn't have written out a long response (repeating the same things you said in the other posts) & would have left it alone.

But it's always fun to get the last word in, isn't it? Especially when you cap it off with "we're done". And bravo for completely missing (ignoring?) the point of my post and focusing on one teeny part of it. At least you're consistent :-D

[GreenComixEnvy]

Lex rules in this issue.

lol
nice pun.

[Darkspellmaster]

Didn't Harvest say there was in the 0 issue of Superboy? (I skimmed through it, so I'm not sure)

He got Lois to leave...

Why does it have to be a particular character? Lex was trying to push Clark's buttons from way back in issue 1 of Action - his basic approach has been one of prodding, probing and torturing the 'alien' in order to provoke a backlash and, thereby, cement him being a danger to mankind. Sure, the respect level has gone up considerably, intellectually, but the basic approach is still there.

Greek slang wouldn't be appropriate, either, as modern Greek slang would be used rather than ancient. Besides, there's no real 'generic' slang, even in London. What's used 'on the street', for example, doesn't necessarily get used in, say, an embassy...

Unlikely, unless this version of Diana has a higher aptitude and adaptability for language than the previous one - who was often noted as having 'an (non-American) accent'.

See like you I skimmed but I think you're right on the idea of there being more then one superboy, like before. Which again makes me wonder if we're going to have a retread of the Sins of youth events, only in less comedic fashion. As long as we don't have "Superboy goes and shaves his head to be evil" I'll semi keep an eye on the titans right now. I'm just hoping for a better relationship between the Super family.

I guess I figure it would be someone becuase of how Lex seems to think at times. Like you said he pushes buttons and he likes to bring Clark down to not only prove he's dangerous but that he's less superior (something I think Lex invented due to his own issues) than Lex. I'm assuming that, given Clark's new status as no family, it would mean that anyone close to him could be a target of sorts for Lex to use against him. That's why I assumed he may have killed someone.

See this is where it's confusing for me as a reader. Diana's supposed to live in London one would think that during that time she would pick up on the language and speak there and would be able to navigate between common and upper crust talk. True in an embassy Diana wouldn't use a term of enderment to Clark, but given that she was asking to call him Beloved, I would think that that was more along the line of wanting to give him a term of enderment, which should have more likely been a more common british term then say "Beloved" which seems rather old fashioned, even for the Pre nu52 Wonder woman. So why didn't anyone say, "Hey easy place to idicate she's not living in the states, here throw some brit slang in there."

But if you live in a place for a while you eventually adopt an accent. It's why when people have been living in one state for a period of time that is differnt then their home state they tend to adopt an accent that is in connection to the state they are living in. That's why I'm curious if she has some sort of hint of a british accent now or not.

[HXHAlex]

After this issue, I MUST have more Superman/SB team ups. These guys are golden together