I'm a retrospective reader. I was born in '85 so having gone back and read all the Jason Todd Robin appearances, I can't separate the stories from the writers. Max Allan Collins created the second origin for Jase - stealing the tires off the Batmobile - to make him seem edgier, cooler, and to capitalize on the new parameters of Year One while moving him further away from Dick Grayson. But the intention to actually turn him into a Bad Robin came later - two years later, when Jim Starlin came onboard, after The Cult (where he was great, actually!). There were a full two years of Post-Crisis Jason being perfectly suitable for the cowl (if not quite as benignly "nice" as the pre-Crisis version of himself.)
So, bearing that in mind, a list of his missteps, and where they occurred (from memory).
1. Rushes in to face Two-Face the first time, because Two-Face ordered his father's death. Survives by luck, I believe.
2. Probably pushes Felipe Garzonas to his death. ("The Diplomat", shown above.)
3. Defies Batman's orders, going to the Middle-East to find his mother, who is one of three:
1. Lady Shiva (It's not - although they never got to play this angle and have Jason meet Cassandra, and that's a crime.)
2. Agent _____ (Can't remember her name; Israeli, Mossad agent. Pure insane comic book logic that two mother options are international operatives.)
3. Sheila Heywood, crooked U.N. soldier who is black marketing medical drugs to terrorists, she sells Jason out to Joker and is killed as a reward. Jason dies.
4. Not exactly Jason's misstep, but since he came back to life amnesiac he fell in with Talia al Ghul and was further trained by the League of Assassins to be a killer.
5. Shows back up in Gotham in elaborate ruse to mind-screw Bruce. Vanishes again.
6. Turns up for real, ready to make Bruce pay for letting him die. Begins putting all his Bat and Assassin skills to use killing ganglords and drug-dealers.
7. Impersonates Nightwing, kills criminals and besmirches Dick Grayson's good name.
8. Participates in "Countdown" weekly series - a capital offense in comic fans' eyes.
9. Beats the crap out of Tim Drake just because he doesn't like the kid who replaced him.
10. Impersonates Batman when Bruce goes missing/dies after Final Crisis, is a Batman who kills gangsters. Stabs Tim Drake in the torso. (Gets ass kicked by Grayson).
11. Kills two night watchmen at Gotham Hospital when he 'rescues' Scarlet. They could have been corrupt, but nothing indicates such.
12. Turns up again in a Red Hood persona with sidekick, in capes, mimicking 'Batman and Robin' and vowing to make them obsolete by actually killing criminals. Causes major escalation.
13. Captures Dick and Damian and nearly reveals their secret identities to the world before being arrested.
14. Is broken out of prison by interested parties from his still mostly unknown "Lost Years" and embarrasses Dick and Damian again.
15. Steals Dick Grayson's former best friends ... but has been on really good behavior lately and mostly only kills aliens or really, really, REALLY bad people.
The gist is, he goes around actually murdering gangsters, dealers and other criminals - yes, only the 'worst kind of people', but his loss to Dick and Damian made it perfectly clear why murdering vigilante-style will not fly - it only causes the worst kind of escalation imaginable and invites a cycle of killing, and more powerful enemies. Effective, yes. Noble, no.
Last edited by Retro315; 01-03-2013 at 03:15 AM.
"Everything hs changed. ‘Dark’ entertainment now looks like hysterical, adolescent, ‘Zibarro’ crap." - Morrison, 2008.
Re: canon status of THE CULT.
It might no longer be canon in the New 52 timeline, but it was definitely part of the Post-COIE timeline. In A DEATH IN THE FAMILY, Bruce explicitly alludes to it when reflecting upon how he had never fully recovered his edge after his encounter with Deacon Blackfire (and attributed his poor management of Jason's situation to this lack of full recovery).
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
The responses are as predictable as they are sad.
As for Jason's crimes, "Battle for the Cowl" did more to define the relationship between the 4 Robins than any other arc when it was cannon. In it, Jason kills a lot of criminals while wearing the Bat-Suit. He then shoots Damian through the heart while he was under Dick's protection. Alfred patches up Damian, while Tim dons the Bat-Suit to go looking for Jason. Big fight where Jason almost kills Catwoman, and stabs Tim in the chest with a rusty Batarang. Dick shows up as Batman kicks Jason's ass, and tosses him off the El-Train into the bay. Where he disappears until Red Hood. Tim gets mad that Dick chooses Damian to be his Robin, and leaves to become Red Robin.
Daniel's 'Tec run might have been awful, but "Battle for the Cowl" was impressive.
There ain't no teens watching Teen Titans Go.
Regardless, there have been numerous references to Inc in the other books as well, the current Inc status quo has adopted the New 52 changes, and it's never been officially stated that it's not canon.
"John Stewart. LAME! ...this guy having a ring is like giving the batmobile to a blind old woman with her left leg in a cast."
"Pym biting Blobs head off seems like something that would have happened when i was ten years old and playing with action figures."
"i always assumed that [the blob] had the same powers as his 616 counterpart because, if simply being a huge fat guy was enough to be considered a mutant then there sure are a lot of mutants in 'real life'. "
On the other hand the only thing that suggests it is part of the "New" continuity, is that it says "the NEW 52" on the cover.
There ain't no teens watching Teen Titans Go.
“There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal."