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  1. #31
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen-aku View Post
    Lets look at some facts real quick
    Yes, let's look at the facts.

    Marvel wen't from a bankrupt company to completed dominating their Distinguished competion and becoming more powerful then ever, all while under Joe Q's leadership, they have grabbed the best writers and artists and innovated the TPB.
    1. Marvel's rise from bankruptcy was due to merchandise and the deals the made in Hollywood.

    2. Marvel was dominating DC in sales before Quesada became EIC. On average, most Marvel books were selling better then DC books before Quesada became EIC. However, DC won the dollar market SOLELY because they were publishing more books the Marvel during that time. It wasn't until Marvel started putting out more product (which they did under Quesada) that Marvel started beating DC in the dollar share.

    3. If anyone saved Marvel, it was Avi Arad. Nuff said.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Yes, let's look at the facts.



    1. Marvel's rise from bankruptcy was due to merchandise and the deals the made in Hollywood.

    2. Marvel was dominating DC in sales before Quesada became EIC. On average, most Marvel books were selling better then DC books before Quesada became EIC. However, DC won the dollar market SOLELY because they were publishing more books the Marvel during that time. It wasn't until Marvel started putting out more product (which they did under Quesada) that Marvel started beating DC in the dollar share.

    3. If anyone saved Marvel, it was Avi Arad. Nuff said.
    I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I just wanted to add one thing to 2. That the EIC at the time that was helping sell Marvel a little bit better was Dob Harras. :)

  3. #33
    Elder Member Blade X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilostmyplace View Post
    I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I just wanted to add one thing to 2. That the EIC at the time that was helping sell Marvel a little bit better was Dob Harras. :)
    Yep. Not only that, the publishing division under Harras was also the only part of Marvel making money when the company went into bankruptcy. Also, Harras was responsible for hiring top creators to work on all of the HEROES RETURN books and all 4 of thosee books consistently sold in the top 30 under Harras. Heck, the FF was a consistent top 15 seller under Lobdell/Davis (who worked on the first 3 issues) and Claremont/Laroca (who worked on the book from 4 to issue 28). When was the last time an FF book CONSISTENTLY sold that well for that length of time?

  4. #34
    Junior Member darkmorgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilostmyplace View Post
    Bob Harras was Editor In chief of the X-Men Franchise.
    Yeah, and look what happened to that line under his watch...
    "At the end of the day, it's all just storybook stuff" - Me

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmorgado View Post
    Yeah, and look what happened to that line under his watch...
    Under Dob Harras, X-men become one of the highest selling comic Franchises of that time. The effects of witch can still be seen today.

  6. #36
    Junior Member darkmorgado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilostmyplace View Post
    Under Dob Harras, X-men become one of the highest selling comic Franchises of that time. The effects of witch can still be seen today.
    It became horrendously bloated though in the process.
    "At the end of the day, it's all just storybook stuff" - Me

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilostmyplace View Post
    Then watch this video and then read this book. And then come back and tell me Joe Quesada saved Marvel. It's about time everyone learned the truth.
    Don't need to tell me...i think about how great Marvel could be today, and then i think about what Quesada has done with the company, and i see how far he's failed to accomplish that level of excitement. Marvel comics have been pretty boring, overall, for years. DC has been kicking Marvel's butt in that department in the last year, i think. Love it or hate it, DC's "New 52" has made everyone take notice and it's brought a feeling of fresh excitement back into the comics scene. Something Marvel continues to fail to accomplsh. "Point one" issues and "Marvel NOW!" renumbering nonsense makes me yawn...<yawn>.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Zen-aku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theflyingfrogunderdog View Post
    Don't need to tell me...i think about how great Marvel could be today, and then i think about what Quesada has done with the company, and i see how far he's failed to accomplish that level of excitement. Marvel comics have been pretty boring, overall, for years. DC has been kicking Marvel's butt in that department in the last year, i think. Love it or hate it, DC's "New 52" has made everyone take notice and it's brought a feeling of fresh excitement back into the comics scene. Something Marvel continues to fail to accomplsh. "Point one" issues and "Marvel NOW!" renumbering nonsense makes me yawn...<yawn>.
    See and most DC fans i talk to think pretty much the exact opposite.
    I'm so bored with this martyrdom routine, this halo all you X-men love to polish. Self-described soldiers adorned in an "X" with no dedication to what it actually stands for.

  9. #39
    Elder Member BrotherUnitNo_4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blade X View Post
    Yes, let's look at the facts.



    1. Marvel's rise from bankruptcy was due to merchandise and the deals the made in Hollywood.

    2. Marvel was dominating DC in sales before Quesada became EIC. On average, most Marvel books were selling better then DC books before Quesada became EIC. However, DC won the dollar market SOLELY because they were publishing more books the Marvel during that time. It wasn't until Marvel started putting out more product (which they did under Quesada) that Marvel started beating DC in the dollar share.

    3. If anyone saved Marvel, it was Avi Arad. Nuff said.
    so you're saying that under Quesada Marvel was able to successfully maintain greater reader interest than DC to support the additional books they were publishing when they couldn't prior?
    Currently reading She-Hulk, Deadpool, Swamp Thing, Ms. Marvel

    Probation: Ghost Rider, Loki: LoA, Secret Avengers

    Looking forward to All-New Ultimates, Flash Gordon and Doctor Mirage.

  10. #40
    C'est kinky Seresecros's Avatar
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    History is written by the winners, not by Linkara

  11. #41

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    Now that I've had some sleep, my minibrain started working. The opening post is way too vague.

    Basically, Marvel was being used as a quick cash grab by it's owner in the 90s, it was saved from bankruptcy when it was bought by someone else. Which is the reason it started doing better despite sales not improving much overall. Because it was being intentionally run into the ground during the 90s?

    Is that it?
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  12. #42
    THE SUPERIOR MEMBER! USERNAME TAKEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilostmyplace View Post
    Under Dob Harras, X-men become one of the highest selling comic Franchises of that time. The effects of witch can still be seen today.
    Uncanny X-men had been the top selling comic in the U.S since the 80s though.

    Harras just bloated the heck out of the line.
    Adults struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life when the answer is obvious to the smallest child: because it's not real. - Grant Morrison

  13. #43
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    Some points need to note:

    1.Marvel never went bankrupt because of it's publishing arm. It was due to some ridiculous financial engineering by Ron Perelman. Even during the bankruptcy years, Marvel's titles were selling well (at the time). So, it's pretty obvious that Quesada didn't save Marvel.

    2. Avi Arad and Perelman's "edging out" could be said to have saved Marvel but it's a lot more complicated than most people think.

    3. Say what you want about Bill Jemas but creatively, his decisions to shake things up (which involved Quesada moving from Marvel Knights to editor in chief of the entire line) was pretty brilliant. You need only to look at Marvel's output in the early 2000s to see the quality they were putting out. Yes, they were misses (like Fightbolts, Marville and Rawhide Kid come to mind) but decisions to trim the X-line (which became hideously bloated and quite frankly stupid under Bob Harras) and the launch of the Ultimate lines amongst other decisions produced excellent results. Not to mention the MAX line was thriving (Supreme Power was doing around 100,000 est) and Marvel was actually taking all sorts of creative risks. Jemas was very much "anti-fanboy" and a lot of long term fans were upset but a lot of his decisions were pretty golden and that was the last time that Marvel really took creative risks.

    Personally, I think Marvel lost their way a bit with Civil War. It's like Marvel saw there was money to be made in huge crossovers and then simply decided to have one every year. You can't entirely blame them though when you look at the commercial success of Civil War and Avengers vs X-men.
    Last edited by USERNAME TAKEN; 01-02-2013 at 07:17 AM.
    Adults struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life when the answer is obvious to the smallest child: because it's not real. - Grant Morrison

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinRedmond View Post
    Now that I've had some sleep, my minibrain started working. The opening post is way too vague.

    Basically, Marvel was being used as a quick cash grab by it's owner in the 90s, it was saved from bankruptcy when it was bought by someone else. Which is the reason it started doing better despite sales not improving much overall. Because it was being intentionally run into the ground during the 90s?

    Is that it?
    100% correct.
    Adults struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life when the answer is obvious to the smallest child: because it's not real. - Grant Morrison

  15. #45
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinRedmond View Post
    Now that I've had some sleep, my minibrain started working. The opening post is way too vague.

    Basically, Marvel was being used as a quick cash grab by it's owner in the 90s, it was saved from bankruptcy when it was bought by someone else. Which is the reason it started doing better despite sales not improving much overall. Because it was being intentionally run into the ground during the 90s?

    Is that it?
    Pretty much.

    Its news to me that anybody thinks Quesada "saved" Marvel at all.

    I'd of given Jemas FAR more credit for improving Marvel than Quesada, but again the company was being run into the ground in the 90's.

    All that had to be done was for them to stop buying toy manufacturers and stuff like that.

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