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  1. #1

    Default The X-Men sharing the same world as other heroes can cause problems

    I've seen the 90's X-men series. So let me get this straight, mutants are an abomination to most of the humans on earth, but non-mutants like the Fantastic Four, She-Hulk, and Captain America are A-OK in their book....WTH? The FF4 get to have their own building. They don't have to worry about angry mobs with pitch forks, signs, and torches standiing outside their building.

    Apparently, if you are born with super powers, you are hated, but if you get your powers from space or a spider, you are cool.

    edit - It's funny if you think about it. It's like if a racist refuse to let people of another race in his house, but will let Shaq and Eddie Murphy in because they are famous.
    Last edited by Fanofthegoblins; 01-01-2013 at 05:24 AM.

  2. #2
    New Warrior colleen wing's Avatar
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    think of mutation in the terms of deformity. Like or not most people with defects/deformities from birth are shunned by society. Maybe not hated but most definitely lower on the scale.

    if someone, like the FF, is deformed in the everyday living of life, say from being in the military and having their arms blown off or something, they are more tolerated by society. like the FF all the other characters you listed were changed during the normal course of everyday life.
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  3. #3
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanofthegoblins View Post
    I've seen the 90's X-men series. So let me get this straight, mutants are an abomination to most of the humans on earth, but non-mutants like the Fantastic Four, She-Hulk, and Captain America are A-OK in their book....WTH? The FF4 get to have their own building. They don't have to worry about angry mobs with pitch forks, signs, and torches standiing outside their building.

    Apparently, if you are born with super powers, you are hated, but if you get your powers from space or a spider, you are cool.

    edit - It's funny if you think about it. It's like if a racist refuse to let people of another race in his house, but will let Shaq and Eddie Murphy in because they are famous.
    This isn't a problem when you think about it. Racism is all about making up a really stupid reason to exclude a group of people. It's just as stupid to hate someone born with powers as it is to hate someone because their skin is darker and they have an afro.
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    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    If they really want to keep up the emo-tastic "feared and hated" BS, they need to establish an in story reason. Generic bias towards super powered people just reads as stupid.

    If they decided to establish a like between the X-gene and an innate disposition toward evil, it would go a long way. Have it be a shared sequence with demons or something, with definitive markers that could distinguish a mutant from any other super person (like "666" on thier forehead or something). Anything less is more than a little ridiculous.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    If they really want to keep up the emo-tastic "feared and hated" BS, they need to establish an in story reason. Generic bias towards super powered people just reads as stupid.

    If they decided to establish a like between the X-gene and an innate disposition toward evil, it would go a long way. Have it be a shared sequence with demons or something, with definitive markers that could distinguish a mutant from any other super person (like "666" on thier forehead or something). Anything less is more than a little ridiculous.
    Do you really think having mutants as literal devil-spawn is more realistic than people just being prejudiced?

    I don't really have a problem with believing anti-mutant prejudice. When you consider groups like the Brotherhood, I can definitely buy that the public will fear and hate mutants. They probably consider mutants as supervillains, basically. The X-Men have always been very iffy in the public eye.

  6. #6
    Groupthink is Groupthink neohuey89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanofthegoblins View Post
    It's funny if you think about it. It's like if a racist refuse to let people of another race in his house, but will let Shaq and Eddie Murphy in because they are famous.
    I don't know if you've ever seen the movie do the right thing, but your statement reminded me of this scene here.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gLYTObRhcSY

    The language is pretty vulgar, so I hope that's not a violation or anything.

  7. #7
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino View Post
    Do you really think having mutants as literal devil-spawn is more realistic than people just being prejudiced?

    I don't really have a problem with believing anti-mutant prejudice. When you consider groups like the Brotherhood, I can definitely buy that the public will fear and hate mutants. They probably consider mutants as supervillains, basically. The X-Men have always been very iffy in the public eye.
    Ii can understand predjudice for it's own sake. The problem in the MU is that there is a public readily accepting of the FF and the Avengers but then a sudden hatred when it comes to mutants?

    Hate isn't that selective. It tends to be broad and ignorant. There would be no mincing and adoring of She-Hulk while Storm is ostracized.

    So, unless there's some defining characteristic, it needs to be all or nothing. Either the public hates and fears super people or they don't.
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  8. #8
    Veteran Member Juggernaut Punch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    If they really want to keep up the emo-tastic "feared and hated" BS, they need to establish an in story reason. Generic bias towards super powered people just reads as stupid.

    If they decided to establish a like between the X-gene and an innate disposition toward evil, it would go a long way. Have it be a shared sequence with demons or something, with definitive markers that could distinguish a mutant from any other super person (like "666" on thier forehead or something). Anything less is more than a little ridiculous.
    The idea that mutants would be hated and feared makes total sense. Can you honestly say you wouldn't treat someone with an octopus head differently if you knew there were people like him that could sneeze hurricanes and fart lasers?

    Regular superhumans have also been hated and feared, just look at Spider-Man. What doesn't make sense is that the X-Men are hated and feared when they've saved the world a gazillion times.

  9. #9
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    What doesn't make sense is that the X-Men are hated and feared when they've saved the world a gazillion times.
    Right? Up until Utopia, I always felt that the school, and what it stood for, should have been a publicly accepted institution. The X-men, as an organization, should have been recognized (at least officially).

    What the Uncanny Avengers is now is what X-men should have been all along: a public face to mutants with mutant heroes working alongside 'normal' heroes.

    The fact that it still slogs along as it does makes no real world sense. Up until AvX, of course. Scott's rampage kinda gave that tired concept a shot in the arm.
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  10. #10
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    Here's what people don't get.

    The X-Men are the same as other heroes. They're prejudiced against but that's the point! Racism is about hating people, but those people are the same as everyone else. It's a irrational fear of people, even though they are just people.

    When I realized that, I'm surprised it didn't catch on more.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    Racism is about hating people, but those people are the same as everyone else. It's a irrational fear of people, even though they are just people.
    I agree with this. But I understand the privileged white people in this topic have a better understanding of racism and discrimination.

  12. #12

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    Another thing.....how the heck do the humans know who is a mutant and who is not? Rogue and Jubilee in the cartoon look normal. Not all mutants have 6 legs or blue skin. The whole mutants going into hiding thing is stupid for the human looking mutants. Rogue could had told them she was in a lab accident, they would have gave her a free pass.

    If I were a mutant, I would be ticked off if I was being chased by angry mobs while Mr. Fantastic is welcome in resturaunts and shaking the president's hand.
    Last edited by Fanofthegoblins; 01-01-2013 at 09:08 AM.

  13. #13
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    I agree with this. But I understand the privileged white people in this topic have a better understanding of racism and discrimination.
    Your assumptions and determined desire to see yourself as a victim are incorrect at best, and largely foolish.

    Hatred of a group of people is entirely understandable (not justified, but I can see how it exists). It's not the concept I've issue with. It's the execution in story.

    Several social movements have come and gone since the creation of the X-men, yet somehow they linger at square one. Even as a fan of self imposed victimhood yourself, don't you see that as a little sad?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juggernaut Punch View Post
    The idea that mutants would be hated and feared makes total sense. Can you honestly say you wouldn't treat someone with an octopus head differently if you knew there were people like him that could sneeze hurricanes and fart lasers?

    Regular superhumans have also been hated and feared, just look at Spider-Man. What doesn't make sense is that the X-Men are hated and feared when they've saved the world a gazillion times.
    Well when most of the problems they've solved were started by other mutants in the first place, you can sort of understand why people wouldn't exactly be friendly towards them. And what sane person would automatically embrace people that could sneeze hurricanes and fart lasers? Most mutants are just downright dangerous to even be around, not to mention the fact that they always seem to have so much trouble keeping those powers under control. Tolerance does not take precedence over self-preservation, especially when so many mutants preach this eugenicist and pseudoscientific rhetoric about being the next step in evolution destined to displace mankind on the planet. And of course mutants are probably the most prejudiced bunch out there, why is it that the leading figures in the X-Men have always been quite ordinary looking individuals who could pass for humans in a pinch, while the real freaks are typically ignored and kept well out of sight?

    The X-Books worked in the past because they always kept this idea pretty nebulous and just used it as a backdrop to tell action and adventure stories. The civil rights analogy is so blatantly unrealistic and unscientific that it could never hold up under any sort of close scrutiny, so it was cleverly shoved into the background. But now they seem to be intent on tackling the issue head on, which just exposes all of the terrible flaws in the logic.
    Last edited by PwrdOff; 01-01-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  15. #15
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the X-Men in the MU has always caused a FEW problems in the MU.

    Yeah, it's sort of weird that mutants are so hated while other heroes aren't. It's not like the average person could know that a hero was a mutant unless they happened to be wearing an X on their uniform.

    But the problem I always had with them is that the rest of the MU essentially needs to be thrown under the bus to allow the X books to tell the stories they want. The public and the government all have to essentially become "villains" so that the X-Men can be potrayed as the victims. And even other heroes essentially have to turn a blind eye to it MOST of the time, because none of the writers want the entire MU to be hijacked by mutant stories on a regular basis.

    On some level I think things might have worked better if the X universe was apart from the rest of the MU. But obviously it's far far too late for that. The X-Men are a part of the MU, and either the marvel needs to work harder to integrate them together better (like they admittedly are in Marvel Now), or readers simply need to use a bit of suspension of belief to make it work.

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