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  1. #136
    Senior Member Choppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJM View Post
    The theory you mentioned was that Talia brings Future Damian back to the present to be The Heretic – so he'd still be Damian!

    Besides, 666 clearly states that it is Damian on pages 2 and 3. He also has Alfred the cat, which we now know was a gift from 'Pennyworth' (nice touch!), and constantly references his father and Dick Grayson etc. I'll be very surprised – and quite angry – if we're told that isn't him at this stage, it would be a pretty low trick. I still think 666 is how Damian ends up if he had made the pact with Hurt, but the future Batman in Inc.#5 could be The Heretic, certainly. Possibly. I'm not sure i care much anymore, to be honest.
    I think the confusion is that going by the theory that Heretic is a Damian clone, I'm saying that he basically is Damian. Based on that it's reasonable that he's the 666 Batman because he has the same memories and looks just like Damian.
    "John Stewart. LAME! ...this guy having a ring is like giving the batmobile to a blind old woman with her left leg in a cast."

    "Pym biting Blobs head off seems like something that would have happened when i was ten years old and playing with action figures."

    "i always assumed that [the blob] had the same powers as his 616 counterpart because, if simply being a huge fat guy was enough to be considered a mutant then there sure are a lot of mutants in 'real life'. "

  2. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choppa View Post
    Didn't the evil Batman in issue #666 have black skin? Or am I remembering it wrong?
    We see some of his skin around the eyes:

    Here it is.

    It's visibly old skin, and I'd argue that he has burns that make it look brownish, as the guy has a little obsession with fire.

    Which makes it sound a little far-fatched, I know :D
    Last edited by tobecooper; 01-03-2013 at 12:18 PM.

  3. #138
    Senior Member AJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choppa View Post
    I'm saying that he basically is Damian
    I understand that – but Talia says Damian isn't the Third Batman!

  4. #139
    Senior Member csis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJM View Post
    I understand that – but Talia says Damian isn't the Third Batman!
    I don't understand why this is bothering you. First of all, Talia is the villain, and you should therefore not take her word as fact. Secondly, how would she know what Batman Bruce dreamed of? They're not her dreams! All she knows is that she's destroying Gotham with the Heretic, so it makes sense for her to think the Heretic is the third Batman.

    I liked the idea from earlier in the thread that Bruce is the one who destroys Gotham by making some kind of compromise. But we don't know any of this for a fact, and it doesn't make sense to get worked up over the not very reliable words of the villain of the story.

  5. #140
    New Member HeroComplex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    That was Michael Lane, the third Batman from Morrison's run. He's the one who tortured Bruce and gave him a heart attack, which led to the 666 nightmare in the first place. Lane went on to become Azrael, which might be retconned(it wasn't a good story anyhow).
    When did Lane become Azrael...I must have completely missed that.

  6. #141
    Senior Member jgiannantoni05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobecooper View Post
    Batman #666 is a story of a confrontation between two Damians. Our Damian (Batman 666) and Heretic (The Third Batman, thus making Michael Lane a misdirection).

    Now re-read #666 in this context, and let your mind explode.
    "We're both sons of Batman in our way."

    And Talia is Satan.

    Good day to yous.
    Talia doesn't jive so well with Satan, as he's talked about in 666. But I think this explanation might possibly end up being right (I have to yet again reread 666). But I'd figure Hurt corrupts Damian's clone into the Third Batman. Maybe Hurt corrupts Damian and his clone.

    I do think Morrison would try to tie up the Third Batman replacement (in 666) into someone else besides Lane, because of how Lane became Azrael. (Otherwise we have to suppose Lane would become the Third Batman again after his stint as Azrael)
    Last edited by jgiannantoni05; 01-03-2013 at 03:15 PM.
    DC discarded their history, and now has none. DC will always be in the shadows of their past work.

  7. #142
    Gotham Guardian Captain Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkseidpwns View Post
    2 was about Talia and her past,5 was about Damian's future.
    So what? The issues still shipped on time, didn't they? What does this have to do with the title supposedly being "delayed"? I don't get it.
    Jim Zimmerman
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  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgiannantoni05 View Post
    Talia doesn't jive so well with Satan, as he's talked about in 666. But I think this explanation might possibly end up being right (I have to yet again reread 666). But I'd figure Hurt corrupts Damian's clone into the Third Batman. Maybe Hurt corrupts Damian and his clone.

    I do think Morrison would try to tie up the Third Batman replacement (in 666) into someone else besides Lane, because of how Lane became Azrael. (Otherwise we have to suppose Lane would become the Third Batman again after his stint as Azrael)
    Need to re-read Batman #666 now, though I might just wait for Inc to finish and read the entire Morrison run then.

  9. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgiannantoni05 View Post
    Talia doesn't jive so well with Satan, as he's talked about in 666. But I think this explanation might possibly end up being right (I have to yet again reread 666). But I'd figure Hurt corrupts Damian's clone into the Third Batman. Maybe Hurt corrupts Damian and his clone.

    I do think Morrison would try to tie up the Third Batman replacement (in 666) into someone else besides Lane, because of how Lane became Azrael. (Otherwise we have to suppose Lane would become the Third Batman again after his stint as Azrael)
    Here's my interpretation of events:
    In 666 Damian talks about making a deal with Satan, while the Evil Batman repeats that he is the son of Satan. So I thought it's about Talia. In this issue, we see Talia telling Bruce to either choose Damian or Gotham, and he choses neither. He doesn't want to make a deal with an Al Ghul. Thus, Talia will go to Damian and ask him, 'Bruce or Gotham?' In 666 he must have answered Gotham to impress both his parents, but it was a deal with the devil, so Bruce really died and Damian will be left with a duty to protect the city. In our real reality, it will work out differently. Damian had so much character growth that he will say Bruce, and angry Talia will kill him.

    But, of course, Morrison is still playing the Hurt card which I haven't taken into account, because I forgot he returned in the previous issue. So I am most possibly wrong in a lot of ways. Though I still think Damian will die - he is the hole in things, a son to a superhero when superheroes don't have sons, a retcon waiting to happen.

  10. #145
    Senior Member Bookem Danno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post

    Burnham's layouts are fantastic, but I'm now getting bored with this story.
    That basically sums it up for me. Unfortunately. Although, this issue was alright and did have a good story flow in itself. Doesn't really feel like New52 which is a sore point.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobecooper View Post
    We see some of his skin around the eyes:

    Here it is.
    What issue was that?

  11. #146
    New Member BatWatch's Avatar
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    Does anybody have any good theories as to the significance of the goat herder? I looked it up, but I still did not come up with any clear answers. I know the parable is about attaining and spreading enlightenment, yet Batman does not seem to attain enlightenment at any point.

    Beyond that, I am very curious what is going on with Talia. I thought Morrison had just twisted her personality to suit his story, but Batman specifically mentions that she is acting strangely. Something is happening to her.

    The BatWatch review is up. I would post a link, but I can't figure out how to make them work.
    Last edited by BatWatch; 01-03-2013 at 06:48 PM.
    For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out Batwatch

  12. #147
    Veteran Member Retro315's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatWatch View Post
    Does anybody have any good theories as to the significance of the goat herder? I looked it up, but I still did not come up with any clear answers. I know the parable is about attaining and spreading enlightenment, yet Batman does not seem to attain enlightenment at any point.

    Beyond that, I am very curious what is going on with Talia. I thought Morrison had just twisted her personality to suit his story, but Batman specifically mentions that she is acting strangely. Something is happening to her.

    The BatWatch review is up. I would post a link, but I can't figure out how to make them work.
    Goats in their Gotham. It was something Professor Pyg said at one point that drew a line between Doctor Hurt and all his Satanic operations (the demon star of Baphomet is a goat's head) in Gotham itself (Which means "Goat Home".) but which we later realized has always also been linked to Al Ghul, Algol, the Eye of the Gorgon star in the constellation of Perseus, and so anything through Talia is Satanic as well - so a fusion between Bruce's ancestry and Talia's ancestry is literally the most Satanic child ever. Goats represent villains, but also scapegoats - which is linking the blame-game that say, two estranged parents might play with one another, as well as how all the rogues' gallery of villains are scapegoats for Batman to play out his patronizing fantasies upon.

    It's a city full of devils and villains. But Bruce through his travels in the Far East and Buddhist studies achieved a level of enlightenment. Batman doesn't kill his devils or villains, he sends them to an Asylum for rehabilitation - he tries to prove that "his way" is the right way, even to the worst criminals like Joker. That's definitely an attempt to spread enlightened thinking, despite the fact that it's comics and it'll never work.

    So in other words ... Talia playing mindgames.
    "Everything hs changed. ‘Dark’ entertainment now looks like hysterical, adolescent, ‘Zibarro’ crap." - Morrison, 2008.
    retrowarbird.blogspot.com

  13. #148
    Senior Member Choppa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJM View Post
    I understand that – but Talia says Damian isn't the Third Batman!
    I gotta read it again because now I'm confusing all my theories with others' speculations.

    I will just leave with this:

    "John Stewart. LAME! ...this guy having a ring is like giving the batmobile to a blind old woman with her left leg in a cast."

    "Pym biting Blobs head off seems like something that would have happened when i was ten years old and playing with action figures."

    "i always assumed that [the blob] had the same powers as his 616 counterpart because, if simply being a huge fat guy was enough to be considered a mutant then there sure are a lot of mutants in 'real life'. "

  14. #149
    Senior Member jgiannantoni05's Avatar
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    I cannot say enough how much I love all the detective work Morrison creates for the reader. The ultimate detective story is this entire long run. So many little and grand mysteries and dense overlapping interlocking narratives and themes.

    Grant's stories create the most wonderful frustration, my computer brain overloads trying to "get it" all.
    Last edited by jgiannantoni05; 01-03-2013 at 09:27 PM.
    DC discarded their history, and now has none. DC will always be in the shadows of their past work.

  15. #150
    Senior Member darkseidpwns's Avatar
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    Wait I thought it was that Batbane guy who gave Bruce the nightmare,not Lane.

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