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  1. #1
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Default FISA warrantless wiretapping act quietly renewed

    GOP and Feinstein join to fulfill Obama's demand for renewed warrantless eavesdropping

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
    Just four or five years ago, objections to warrantless eavesdropping were a prime grievance of Democrats against Bush. The controversies that arose from it were protracted, intense, and often ugly. Progressives loved to depict themselves as stalwartly opposing right-wing radicalism in defense of Our Values and the Constitution.

    Fast forward to 2012 and all of that, literally, has changed. Now it's a Democratic President demanding reform-free renewal of his warrantless eavesdropping powers. He joins with the Republican Party to codify them. A beloved Democratic Senator from a solidly blue state leads the fear-mongering campaign and Terrorist-enabling slurs against anyone who opposes it. And it now all happens with virtually no media attention or controversy because the two parties collaborate so harmoniously to make it happen. And thus does a core guarantee of the founding - the search warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment - blissfully disappear into nothingness.
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  2. #2
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    The most frustrating part is the results from Feinstein's primary race earlier this year. We could've pitted her against someone actually decent in the general election if more voters had taken advantage of California's new primary system*, but instead she coasted to victory with 53%, followed by six Republicans totaling 32% (max 13%), while none of the D alternatives got more than 2% of the vote.

    *: In which the top two candidates advance, regardless of party.

    (As someone who voted for the Comp Sci guy, it's also galling that the OWS guy got more votes despite explicitly refusing to discuss his other positions unless/until he got elected on his single issue.)
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  3. #3
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    The wiretapping has not effected me one bit. Not once. On the other hand, Feinstein's threats to investigate oil companies for price gouging has me buying premium for a dollar less than I was a few months back.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...lators-to.html
    http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_222...asoline-prices

    Among many, many other things she has done just in the past few months, not to mention past several years. And the wiretapping thing wasn't all that quiet, what with all the headlines regarding it for the past several days.
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  4. #4
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    The wiretapping has not effected me one bit. Not once.
    How would you know? That's the whole problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    And the wiretapping thing wasn't all that quiet, what with all the headlines regarding it for the past several days.
    It was quiet here, if I had to create the thread myself 2 days later...

    Plus, everyone's obsessed with the fiscal cliff.
    Last edited by MKTerra; 12-30-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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  5. #5
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKTerra View Post
    It was quiet here, if I had to create the thread myself 2 days later...

    Plus, everyone's obsessed with the fiscal cliff.
    I don't know, it may have been mentioned in one of the other politics threads. If not, most people may have not cared all that much. I certainly don't feel less "Free."
    I also don't feel like anyone is watching me. And it's not like extending a program that already exist changes anything. Are we in a different place we were ten months ago? The subtitle of that blog made me snicker.
    "The California Democrat's disgusting rhetoric recalls the worst of Dick Cheney while advancing Obama's agenda"
    The worst of Dick Cheney
    She's introducing gun legislation as we type, she's fighting for gay marriage (when we say "we" put an end to DOMA, we really mean "she" put an end to DOMA), she just passed the Civil Liberties Amendment, went up against Big Oil on her own, and she's compared to the worst of the GOP, at their worst.
    Yeah...
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  6. #6
    Diabetic Indian
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    Absolutely disgusting. Just goes to show that there really is no difference between the two parties.

  7. #7
    Be Right Back... Spike-X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Average View Post
    Absolutely disgusting. Just goes to show that there really is no difference between the two parties.
    On this one particular issue, that would indeed seem to be the case.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    The wiretapping has not effected me one bit. Not once. On the other hand, Feinstein's threats to investigate oil companies for price gouging has me buying premium for a dollar less than I was a few months back.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...lators-to.html
    http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_222...asoline-prices

    Among many, many other things she has done just in the past few months, not to mention past several years. And the wiretapping thing wasn't all that quiet, what with all the headlines regarding it for the past several days.
    If they are so interested in wiretaping the bad guys why aren't they wiretapping congress and the senate?

    I bet a lot of them should be out of office or on prison if they would be serious about helping the litle guy.

    Who was against this?

    I remeber Rand Paul and maybe some dems.

  9. #9
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    I don't know, it may have been mentioned in one of the other politics threads. If not, most people may have not cared all that much. I certainly don't feel less "Free."
    I also don't feel like anyone is watching me. And it's not like extending a program that already exist changes anything. Are we in a different place we were ten months ago? The subtitle of that blog made me snicker.
    "The California Democrat's disgusting rhetoric recalls the worst of Dick Cheney while advancing Obama's agenda"
    The worst of Dick Cheney
    She's introducing gun legislation as we type, she's fighting for gay marriage (when we say "we" put an end to DOMA, we really mean "she" put an end to DOMA), she just passed the Civil Liberties Amendment, went up against Big Oil on her own, and she's compared to the worst of the GOP, at their worst.
    Yeah...
    We're certainly different from four years ago, never mind eight or ten. The article says not "worst of the GOP" but "worst of Cheney," for his years of terrorist scaremongering after 9/11 to justify any extreme, be it war or torture or dragnet surveillance, no matter the principles they trampled on. And while Obama has pulled back on some of these, he really betrayed his initial campaign promises on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
    Here we find yet again a defining attribute of the Obama legacy: the transformation of what was until recently a symbol of right-wing radicalism - warrantless eavesdropping - into meekly accepted bipartisan consensus. But it's not just the policies that are so transformed but the mentality and rhetoric that accompanies them: anyone who stands in the way of the US Government's demands for unaccountable, secret power is helping the Terrorists. "The administration has decided the program should be classified", decreed Feinstein, and that is that.
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  10. #10
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKTerra View Post
    We're certainly different from four years ago, never mind eight or ten. The article says not "worst of the GOP" but "worst of Cheney," for his years of terrorist scaremongering after 9/11 to justify any extreme, be it war or torture or dragnet surveillance, no matter the principles they trampled on. And while Obama has pulled back on some of these, he really betrayed his initial campaign promises on this one.
    Oh, so four years ago this warrantless wiretapping didn't exist? And no, Feinstein is absolutely nothing like Cheney or anyone in the GOP. Feinstein supporting the wiretapping doesn't make me think twice about her, it makes me think twice about wiretapping. She's probably the most valuable legislator in congress. She has done more to improve the lives of Americans than any other current senator that I am aware of. That and Rand Paul is the voice of opposition, and all the criticisms I read are about as compelling as that idiotic blog, so yeah...
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  11. #11
    Red Knight MKTerra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupont2005 View Post
    Oh, so four years ago this warrantless wiretapping didn't exist?
    Oh, it existed, but Obama didn't like it back then. Back then you could still blame Bush for it.

    And no, Feinstein is absolutely nothing like Cheney or anyone in the GOP. Feinstein supporting the wiretapping doesn't make me think twice about her, it makes me think twice about wiretapping.
    Too bad this was the last chance to think twice about it for 5 years, unless the court challenge prevails against the Obama admin's Kafkaesque arguments against the plaintiffs up till now. ("You don't have standing to sue if you don't know for sure you're being secretly wiretapped! Oh wait, you have evidence? Can't use that, it's classified." Meanwhile at the NSA, "We can't estimate how many Americans we're spying on because 1) we don't know, and 2) revealing more info would be a breach of their privacy. Yah.")

    She's probably the most valuable legislator in congress. She has done more to improve the lives of Americans than any other current senator that I am aware of. That and Rand Paul is the voice of opposition, and all the criticisms I read are about as compelling as that idiotic blog, so yeah...
    Ahem, the voice of opposition has been Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), who held up the bill in the Senate until they relented to debate it at all. He was also on the right side of the SOPA/PIPA fight over flawed internet regulation, as long as we're talking personal heroes in Congress.
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  12. #12
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    I look the FISA Amendment up and it doesn't allow the wiretaps on US soil - not when Glennwald was implying at all - and does set out rules for surveillance, which he didn't mention. The problem is it allows for warrantless taps in the case of emergencies, provided you file the papers afterwards; that's clearly open to abuse. Glennwald doesn't explain that, he implies the entire act is only about removing warrants (which it isn't).

    Glennwald is a shit journalist and undermines his own fucking side by making it so easy to point out he's playing silly buggers.
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    maybe its my paranoia talking, but I think random surveillance has been around for a long, long time...probably since Hoover

    now it's just being put out there ever so gently to get people used to the idea
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    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    maybe its my paranoia talking, but I think random surveillance has been around for a long, long time...probably since Hoover
    It has. That's why governments have had to pass laws, because it always turned out to be abused and led to dangerous scandals.
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  15. #15
    Hardcover addict dupont2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    maybe its my paranoia talking, but I think random surveillance has been around for a long, long time...probably since Hoover

    now it's just being put out there ever so gently to get people used to the idea
    You ever see an episode of The Wire or Law & Order or something where the investigators find out where a body or something is, but can't do anything because they didn't have a warrant? It's like that, but with terrorists instead of crack pushers, and anthrax instead of junkie corpses.
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