Mary Jane and Superior Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #700 Spoilers)

[Superior Big Time Dave]

He is still Steve. This literally makes no sense.

Edit: oh you are concern trolling.

No, not trolling at all. I'm serious. If "leaving something out" that might cause someone NOT to have sex with you is withheld, that IS deception, is it not?

[Raphael Edwards]

Sometimes coming up with an absurd example demonstrates how crazy an argument has become.

As far as defeating my own argument because Steve 2012 would still factually be Steve '42, no he would not. Your body is constantly dying and and being "reborn" throughout your life. Cells die and new cells replace them. (don't quote me on this, but I recall reading somewhere...back when I was a kid...that you have a "new" body every 7 years or so, because of the amount of cell death/rebirth) that goes on.

"Factually" he would be a different Steve because...as you pointed out...he's older and more worldly...making him a different man that what 1942 Peggy would expect '42 Steve to be, and he doesn't have the same body. (even if don't accept the whole cell thing, it's an older body that she would expect)

Even if you want to ignore all of the above, Steve Rogers not saying "Hey, Peggy. I'm not the exact same man you know, but I'm Steve Rogers from 2012" is omitting a truth. Doc Ock not mentioning that he's not the exact same person that JM thinks he is is also omitting the truth. Hence the "deception"

Come now man, really? You're dancing around the main point here, and that it's still factually Steve Rodgers in essence whether he goes into detail about about which time he's from or not. It's deception only in that he doesn't tell her he's not the Steve of her current timeline and that's it. She'd still hit is what I'm trying to say.

Otto inside of Peter is completely different in every way as he in essence isn't Peter, but only using his body to deceive people. If he were to tell MJ who he really was inside, he wouldn't hit. You feel me?

[Chiasm]

Steve Rogers is still Steve Rogers.

Now if Mystique pretends to be Rogue and gets it on with Gambit than Gambit just got raped by deception.

[spider-prime]

[Kevin Nichols]

Any super hero that beds a girl (or guy) without disclosing his other identity is guilty of "rape by deception."

I've told a few girls that I loved them, even though I didn't, just to get them in the sack, so I'm a rapist too.

[charlesthehammer]

No, not trolling at all. I'm serious. If "leaving something out" that might cause someone NOT to have sex with you is withheld, that IS deception, is it not?

If that really alters her consent then yes it is. Though it doesn't really compare with the SSM situation.

Also yes you are to the poster above me.

[Chiasm]

Didn't Chameleon have sex with someone while he was posing as Peter Parker back in BND? That would be rape by deception.

[Raphael Edwards]

Any super hero that beds a girl (or guy) without disclosing his other identity is guilty of "rape by deception."

I've told a few girls that I loved them, even though I didn't, just to get them in the sack, so I'm a rapist too.

Nah, you're just a man lol

You're not secretly the evil dread Lord Xenu of the Nth dimension pretending to be Kevin Nichols getting with them.

[Superior Big Time Dave]

Come now man, really? You're dancing around the main point here, and that it's still factually Steve Rodgers in essence whether he goes into detail about about which time he's from or not. It's deception only in that he doesn't tell her he's not the Steve of her current timeline and that's it. She'd still hit is what I'm trying to say.

Otto inside of Peter is completely different in every way as he in essence isn't Peter, but only using his body to deceive people. If he were to tell MJ who he really was inside, he wouldn't hit. You feel me?

Maybe she would still hit it or maybe she wouldn't...but, by not telling her, he's being deceptive.

Put it this way, why in Peggy's right mind woud she stop and think "Hey, wait a sec. Is this my Steve Rogers or Steve Rogers from the future" any more so than MJ would stop and go "Is this really Peter or is it Otto?"

Because neither Peggy nor MJ would have access to their partners true identity without that confession, and because it WOULD change MJ's intention and it MIGHT change Peggy's...it's deception.

[SplinteringHeart]

No, Jon. The EASY insult is to take something as serious as rape and use it as a cudgel in an argument about comic book characters.

On the crystal ball front, is it okay if I predict a future where if rape NEVER occurs in SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN that you and others WON'T be as generous with your apologies as you have been with your accusations?

Whoa! hang on Dan, "take it and use it as a cudgel"....no, not at all....you wote the story, you put the issue out there....why do you persist in pretending the issue isn't there that there is no implied potentiality of rape by deception. Come on then just simply say to everyone "sorry you folks have made a massive misinterpretation and that's not what I meant", why treat us like we're imagining the intent and using the issue as some sort of vehicle? I'm serious Dan, about the issue, about my interpretation on reading ASM and Avenging..and about how I feel about it, and about what has happened to Peter Parker....

You may or may not be messing with me with your continued insults but take my word for it, my posts contain serious truthful opinion, I'm not really interested in just trading insults or posting just for the rise.

If things do go more positive than I suspect I certainly will give compliment, and apologisie as necessary.

Regards

Jon

[Kevin Nichols]

If that really alters her consent then yes it is. Though it doesn't really compare with the SSM situation.

Also yes you are to the poster above me.

I've also used lines like "Don't I know you from somewhere?" and "You're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen." to pick up girls. I should be jailed.

[Raphael Edwards]

Maybe she would still hit it or maybe she wouldn't...but, by not telling her, he's being deceptive.

It's deceptive of course, but not a malicious form of deception. He's not actively lying to the girl saying he's someone he isn't outside of not being her current version of himself.

Oh, and it's not a matter of "maybe" or whatever, because she would hit.

[charlesthehammer]

I've also used lines like "Don't I know you from somewhere?" and "You're the most beautiful girl I've ever seen." to pick up girls. I should be jailed.

One day maybe. The states may not be great but we are getting better. If it really upsets the girl (or guy) then yeah I would hope. The problem being victim shaming is a serious problem that we have to work on.

It also doesn't help that many facets of our culture actively advocate you participate in these kind of things.

[Superior Big Time Dave]

It's deceptive of course, but not a malicious form of deception. He's not actively lying to the girl saying he's someone he isn't outside of not being her current version of himself.

Oh, and it's not a matter of "maybe" or whatever, because she would hit.

Totally agree that it's not malicious, and maybe that's where we draw the line at "it is/it isn't rape by deception", with the one who is being deceptive's intent in omitting the information.

[Kevin Nichols]

One day maybe. The states may not be great but we are getting better. If it really upsets the girl (or guy) then yeah I would hope. The problem being victim shaming is a serious problem that we have to work on.

It also doesn't help that many facets of our culture actively advocate you participate in these kind of things.

Did someone lie to you to get you in bed once? You seem to take this subject to an odd extreme.