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  1. #1
    Soul Gem Resident adam_warlock_2099's Avatar
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    Default Avengers Aficionados Assemble!

    Like the Ultron and Kang questions I had, I wanted to ask some more. Questions or opinions on some stories and what not. I am still watching this Avengers cartoon and enjoying it and not knowing the stories. I have never delved into the Avengers except appearances by villains or other heroes or parts of crossover stories. From the Ultron thread I can see that there are a lot of knowledgeable and passionate Avengers readers.

    Recently there was an episode with a story about Micheal Korvac. I checked and there is am early Avengers story "Korvac Saga" in 159, 167, 168, 170 - 177, though his first appearance was in G.S. Defenders, which I had and read. There's not much about the character in GSD to tell much about the character. But in the show he was imbued with cosmic type powers through non consensual experimentation from Skrulls. His power is strong enough that he is able to fight the Avengers (who find him when he crash lands to earth) and the Guardians of the Galaxy (who are trying to apprehend him) at the same time. It is only till his lady friend Corinna talks him down that he leaves earth. How does this compare to the story in the books? I like the cosmic stuff and the Micheal/Corinna relationship is good.

    There was an odd thing that was probably done due to the time (2010) that the cartoon was made. While the original Korvac story is early in the Avengers comics, the GotG team in the cartoon was the present one, Star-Lord, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, and Quasar.

    For someone interested in reading into Avengers, how do the Essentials read to those that have read both the color and the B&W? Also does anyone know if there had been a chronological reprinting in color of early Avengers issues? Even something through the first 100 issues would probably land me in a position of affordable single issues.
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  2. #2
    Idaho Spuds Slam_Bradley's Avatar
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    Korvac was a throwaway character created by Gerber and Starlin in G. S. Defenders #3. He was brought back by Shooter as a Shooter stand-in. I don't want to spoil the story (unless you ask), but the gist was, trust power (Shooter/Marvel Corporate) and good things will happen.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mrc1214's Avatar
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    I'm not going to spoil it for you ( unless you want me to) but the Korvac saga ends much differently in the books. It was probably to dark for the cartoon. Slam beat me to it I see.

    As far as reading the Essentials it's more than likely the only way I'm going to read 1-100 in its entirety. I have some reader copies but I don't think I'm going to find Avengers 4 for a good price. Don Heck art looks really good in black and white. So Essentials work good for me. I don't think I would enjoy reading anything Perez,Byrne, Buscema, etc, did in black and white. Those are way too good in color for me to pass up.

  4. #4

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    Personally, I love The Korvac Saga, it's one of my favorite superhero stories of all time. And I know a lot of Avengers fans who were kids in the 70's who feel the same. However, it's not for everybody, as there are plenty of people on the boards here who aren't big fans of it.

    The others have pretty much covered what can be covered without spoiling it. I will say that while the Korvac Saga encompasses a lot of issues (though not 159 from what I remember), many of those have other stories at the forefront with the Korvac stuff going on as a subplot. #170-171 for instance have Jocasta and Ultron, while #172-174 focus on The Collector. The final issue of the arc is certainly divisive, but the end to the arc was also just slightly disjointed due to the creative team changing for the last couple issues. I think they did a fine job, but it's hard to live up to the art standard set by Perez for the start of the arc.

    Some of the earlier issues of Avengers were reprinted in color in Marvel Masterworks, but I'm not sure how far they got. Maybe up to #30? Similarly, Marvel Triple Action reprinted Avengers issues during the 70's. Oddly, it didn't start at the beginning, with the first reprint being of #10. They got as far as #54 before stopping, which is a terrible place to stop since #54 ends on one of the most famous cliffhangers in Avengers history.

    I'm not aware of #55-up being reprinted in color, with the exception of the Kree/Skrull War issues, which I think were done in a prestige format reprint series in the early 80's on eye-melting Baxter paper.
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  5. #5
    Welcome to Bleeker Street MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post
    For someone interested in reading into Avengers, how do the Essentials read to those that have read both the color and the B&W? Also does anyone know if there had been a chronological reprinting in color of early Avengers issues? Even something through the first 100 issues would probably land me in a position of affordable single issues.

    I have the first 5 volumes of Essentials, which I acquired after I sold off my run of Avengers that was complete except for #1 and 4. I don't mind reading the black and white volumes, so I like the Essentials well enough. There are 12 volumes of Avengers in the Marvel Masterworks line which reprints the series up through the Avengers/Defenders War in the one-teens (the last volume also includes the Defenders issues in the cross-over). These are the only color chronological editions that I know of (I don't think Marvel has done an Avengers omnibus).

    As for the Korvac story, it is one of my favorite Avengers saga from my youth, that had a slow build and featured some of my all time Avengers moments. As a kid, I read every issue and waited breathlessly for the next to come out, but I never knew how it ended because I missed the last issue from the newsstands (grounded for a month and couldn't buy comics), and had to wait nearly 7 years to find out how it ended when I finally discovered comics shops and got the back issue. After 7 years, it was a bit of a let down, but I still love the saga and the era it represents in Avengers history.

    The early part has Perez on art, the latter half has Dave Wenzel, whose fantasy art is excellent but his super-hero stuff is not as dynamic and a bit of a let down after Perez. Wenzel also did some Solomon Kane stuff, the painted 3 issue adaptation of the Hobbit with Chuck Dixon from Eclipse Comics, and the Wizard's Tale OGN with Kurt Busiek-all of which are excellent-his Avengers stuff on the other hand is serviceable but not spectacular.

    Korvac and the Guardians also appeared in a Thor Annual (#6 I want to say off the top of my head) that served as a prologue for the Avengers tale and was the transition between the character we see in GS Defenders and the one who shows up in Avengers.

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  6. #6
    Welcome to Bleeker Street MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    Personally, I love The Korvac Saga, it's one of my favorite superhero stories of all time. And I know a lot of Avengers fans who were kids in the 70's who feel the same. However, it's not for everybody, as there are plenty of people on the boards here who aren't big fans of it.

    The others have pretty much covered what can be covered without spoiling it. I will say that while the Korvac Saga encompasses a lot of issues (though not 159 from what I remember), many of those have other stories at the forefront with the Korvac stuff going on as a subplot. #170-171 for instance have Jocasta and Ultron, while #172-174 focus on The Collector. The final issue of the arc is certainly divisive, but the end to the arc was also just slightly disjointed due to the creative team changing for the last couple issues. I think they did a fine job, but it's hard to live up to the art standard set by Perez for the start of the arc.

    Some of the earlier issues of Avengers were reprinted in color in Marvel Masterworks, but I'm not sure how far they got. Maybe up to #30? Similarly, Marvel Triple Action reprinted Avengers issues during the 70's. Oddly, it didn't start at the beginning, with the first reprint being of #10. They got as far as #54 before stopping, which is a terrible place to stop since #54 ends on one of the most famous cliffhangers in Avengers history.

    I'm not aware of #55-up being reprinted in color, with the exception of the Kree/Skrull War issues, which I think were done in a prestige format reprint series in the early 80's on eye-melting Baxter paper.
    159 has Thor and Panther showing up unexpectedly to deal with the Graviton menace, which was later revealed to be a manipulation of the Collector as part of prepping the Avengers for the coming of Korvac-which is why it is considered part of the saga.
    -M
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRP View Post
    159 has Thor and Panther showing up unexpectedly to deal with the Graviton menace, which was later revealed to be a manipulation of the Collector as part of prepping the Avengers for the coming of Korvac-which is why it is considered part of the saga.
    -M

    Oh, right. That's part of the "Thor couldn't possibly have been in these stories due to what he was doing in his own title, so here's an explanation why he doesn't know who Wonder Man is" thing.

    I dunno, I personally still wouldn't consider 159 part of the Korvac Saga, the story doesn't really have anything to do with Korvac, it seemed just like someone pointed out to Shooter that his continuity didn't make any sense so he built a retcon into the arc to justify it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MRP View Post
    There are 12 volumes of Avengers in the Marvel Masterworks line which reprints the series up through the Avengers/Defenders War in the one-teens (the last volume also includes the Defenders issues in the cross-over). These are the only color chronological editions that I know of (I don't think Marvel has done an Avengers omnibus).
    I had no idea they went that far with the Masterworks. I had already completed my collection when the second one came out so I guess I didn't pay attention to later releases.
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  8. #8
    Soul Gem Resident adam_warlock_2099's Avatar
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    Thanks for the no spoiler comments. The issue numbers in Avengers that I got were from wikipedia, not my own knowledge. Is is just as well to read from #159-177 even if the stories are always Korvac?

    Thanks for the additional issue numbers too.

    Upon some research thanks to Scott, between Marvel Triple Action and Marvel Super Action I can get color reprints between #10-76 and a few annuals all in color. Thank you guys again for time in posting. I may just get Essential volumes at the library and read them and then start getting the color reprints of the ones I want. Lone Star has most of them available right now and fairly cheap.

    I can get latter issues of what I want to keep. That will help me get to read the early Ultron and Kang stories before I get to the other two Scott pointed out to me and then the Korvac Saga.

    What other cosmic type storylines are in the Avengers that are good? I think about the only one I have is Galactic Storm.

    Also, how recent is a red Hulk. I watched one episode last night where some, at this time, undisclosed villain has transformed someone into a red colored Hulk, who happens to have a personal vendetta out for the green Hulk.
    Last edited by adam_warlock_2099; 12-30-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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  9. #9
    Ex-Cheeks Reptisaurus!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post

    Upon some research thanks to Scott, between Marvel Triple Action and Marvel Super Action I can get color reprints between #10-76 and a few annuals all in color. Thank you guys again for time in posting. I may just get Essential volumes at the library and read them and then start getting the color reprints of the ones I want. Lone Star has most of them available right now and fairly cheap.
    Keep in mind that many of the color reprints from the '70s cut story pages or erase and rearrange panels - Most Marvel comics from
    the '70s had only 20 story pages, compared to 20-or-more from the '60s stories they were reprinting.

    The softcover masterworks - a good deal at 25 dollars a pop - are up to volume 4, or more-or-less issue 40. The hardcover masterworks - a Godawful terrible deal at 55-65 bucks a pop - are up to volume 13, or around issue 130.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post
    Thanks for the no spoiler comments. The issue numbers in Avengers that I got were from wikipedia, not my own knowledge. Is is just as well to read from #159-177 even if the stories are always Korvac?
    Oh yeah, these are some of the best issues in the run. #158-159 is a nice Graviton story, but then #160 is a fantastic single issue story, #161-162 is maybe the best Ultron story ever and #164-166 is the classic Nefaria arc with art by John Byrne, which is basically a What If the Avengers fought Superman story. #163 and #169 are fill-in issues, and so both are just okay, with #163 being a little bit more interesting as it kinda/sorta ties up some loose ends from Champions being canceled.

    #158-177 is one of my favorite runs in Avengers, so I'm all for everyone reading them.


    On another note, the Red Hulk stuff is just within the last couple years, so I don't know anything about it.
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  11. #11
    Cute.5 Aaron King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post
    Also, how recent is a red Hulk. I watched one episode last night where some, at this time, undisclosed villain has transformed someone into a red colored Hulk, who happens to have a personal vendetta out for the green Hulk.
    Red Hulk first appeared as Red Hulk in 2008 in Hulk #1 by Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness. I haven't seen the cartoon, but I assume the person who became the Red Hulk is probably the same. I won't spoil it for you, but it's a recurring character dating back quite awhile in the Hulk mythos.

    The first Red Hulk stories aren't my cup of tea, but if you like other Loeb/McGuinness books such as Superman/Batman, you'd probably enjoy these. Later on in the series, Jeff Parker takes over writing, and he's great.
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  12. #12
    Soul Gem Resident adam_warlock_2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptisaurus! View Post
    Keep in mind that many of the color reprints from the '70s cut story pages or erase and rearrange panels - Most Marvel comics from
    the '70s had only 20 story pages, compared to 20-or-more from the '60s stories they were reprinting.

    The softcover masterworks - a good deal at 25 dollars a pop - are up to volume 4, or more-or-less issue 40. The hardcover masterworks - a Godawful terrible deal at 55-65 bucks a pop - are up to volume 13, or around issue 130.
    Thanks for the heads up on the reprint singles. It's a shame they don't keep making the SC volumes too. At 10 issues a volume that's a good price. That will at least get me that much in good quality. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Harris View Post
    Oh yeah, these are some of the best issues in the run. #158-159 is a nice Graviton story, but then #160 is a fantastic single issue story, #161-162 is maybe the best Ultron story ever and #164-166 is the classic Nefaria arc with art by John Byrne, which is basically a What If the Avengers fought Superman story. #163 and #169 are fill-in issues, and so both are just okay, with #163 being a little bit more interesting as it kinda/sorta ties up some loose ends from Champions being canceled.

    #158-177 is one of my favorite runs in Avengers, so I'm all for everyone reading them.
    Sounds like this is a definite purchase in the original singles. I have #158, 170, 174 already. 8-)
    On another note, the Red Hulk stuff is just within the last couple years, so I don't know anything about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron King View Post
    Red Hulk first appeared as Red Hulk in 2008 in Hulk #1 by Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness. I haven't seen the cartoon, but I assume the person who became the Red Hulk is probably the same. I won't spoil it for you, but it's a recurring character dating back quite awhile in the Hulk mythos.

    The first Red Hulk stories aren't my cup of tea, but if you like other Loeb/McGuinness books such as Superman/Batman, you'd probably enjoy these. Later on in the series, Jeff Parker takes over writing, and he's great.
    I thought I remembered it being fairly new. It seems that the original placement of these stories in the comics canon isn't how they are developing them in the cartoon. Loeb I am indifferent too, but I do like McGuinness art. I enjoyed the first 20 or so issues of Superman/Batman and then it seemed to trail off for me. I'll probably watch a few episodes tonight and see how it goes. I'm curious to see what Hulk character it is.
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  13. #13
    Cute.5 Aaron King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam_warlock_2099 View Post
    I thought I remembered it being fairly new. It seems that the original placement of these stories in the comics canon isn't how they are developing them in the cartoon.
    That's what I like about cartoons like Batman, Justice League, Brave & the Bold, and so on. They're able to survey the entire history of the characters and cherry-pick the stuff they like, remix it, iron out the kinks, and hopefully get a nice, cohesive structure out of it all.
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  14. #14
    Soul Gem Resident adam_warlock_2099's Avatar
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    It actually is a very good show. One of the best of Marvel's many series. Nothing as wonderful as Batman:TAS but, again probably the best Marvel animated series I have watched.

    That may be due to the fact that most of these Avengers stories are unknown to me, so the changes aren't going to offend me as a reader of the comics. I may change my mind if they tackle Thanos and the Cosmic Cube (though they have already introduced it, created my MODOC and AIM for Red Skull) or Thanos and the Infinity Gems. But so far, it is a really enjoyable series.
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  15. #15
    Welcome to Bleeker Street MRP's Avatar
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    Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was one of if not the best Marvel animated series. As a long time Avengers fan, I felt it captured the feeling of the Avengers perfectly. However, it will not be tackling any more story-lines as it was cancelled by Marvel despite critical and commercial success, rumor has it the decision came form the man in charge of Marvel animation-Jeph Loeb, who wanted to make an Avengers series more in line with the new Spider-Man animated-Ultimate Spider-Man and with a roster more reminiscent of the movies, one that is more kid friendly and kid-centric like the current Spider-Man series is. Having watched a few episodes of Ultimate Spider-Man, all I can say is I think Marvel is making a huge mistake as Ultimate Spider-Man is just plain awful-teen age Luke Cage and Danny Rand as Agents of SHIELD aside, the constant breaking of the fourth wall as Spider-Man wisecracks directly to the viewers in the aren't comics silly vein is just downright unbearable to watch.

    On a happier note, I will echo Scott's comments, Avengers 158-177 is one of my favorite runs but I would push the start of that back to include the Attumna/Doom saga that crossed over into Super-Villain Team Up #9 that preceded it as well. That year also saw Avengers Annual 7 and Marvel Two-in One Annual #2 featuring the classic Avengers-Thanos-Warlock tale. It's my favorite year of Avengers ever.

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