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  1. #136
    Um... DaveTVS's Avatar
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    He fits in with other uselessly-powered Avengers like Hawkeye just fine. It's not like he's glaringly out of place.

  2. #137
    Fabulous GreenComixEnvy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It's mentioned here (along with Mordo, Fin Fang Foom, and Korvac)

    http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2152108.html
    lol
    this type of thing never seems to make me not laugh.

  3. #138
    BANNED
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    I find he fits better with the Avengers better than Black Widow. She feels misplaced in the genre. She works better in the spy genre.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It's mentioned here (along with Mordo, Fin Fang Foom, and Korvac)

    http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2152108.html
    Never did care for her in Marvel she seems better suited in a Marvel spoof title.

  4. #139
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticguy View Post
    Underdog should pull through Spiderman Vs Scoprion basic bad guy with more powers than the heros. But non powered should only beat power houses by chance luck. Like when Cap berat Thor by keeping him away from his hammer making him change into Don Blake. The Wrecking Crew should beat Sam and Bucky 9 out of 10 times. The book gave you the 10th time.
    And Yet Spiderman Faces guy's like Electro and Sandman every other day and beats them all the time. Both Characters extremely outside of his weight class. Celtic your argument in this particular case in which you are presenting it is invalid.

  5. #140
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    And Yet Spiderman Faces guy's like Electro and Sandman every other day and beats them all the time. Both Characters extremely outside of his weight class. Celtic your argument in this particular case in which you are presenting it is invalid.
    No they aren't. Definitely not compared to two peak humans vs Four Hulk level villains. And somehow, the two peak humans were able to physically hurt said Hulk level villains.
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."


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  6. #141
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    And Yet Spiderman Faces guy's like Electro and Sandman every other day and beats them all the time. Both Characters extremely outside of his weight class. Celtic your argument in this particular case in which you are presenting it is invalid.
    Really, it depends how it's done.

    Spider-Man beating Sandman by punching him out doesn't work (though he should be able to punch out Electro). Spider-Man beating Sandman by taking advantage of his natural weakness to things like water works just fine.

    There's always a way to sell a weaker character beating a stronger one... it's just a matter of the writer doing a good enough job selling it. That's the difference between good writing and bad. I don't recall the specific fight between Falcon/Bucky and the Crew, so I can't really judge how well the writer handled it. If it in anyway involved Falcon or Bucky knocking out the crew with kicks or punches or whatever, then I think it's fair to argue they were jobbed as as they theoretically shouldn't be able to physically hurt let alone beat them. But if they somehow someway managed to outsmart them and beat them, that's hardly outside the realm of possibility. It just depends HOW it was done.

  7. #142
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    No they aren't. Definitely not compared to two peak humans vs Four Hulk level villains. And somehow, the two peak humans were able to physically hurt said Hulk level villains.
    Elector was at one point at the same power level as Magneto back in his prime. So yeah I would say they are.

  8. #143
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Really, it depends how it's done.

    Spider-Man beating Sandman by punching him out doesn't work (though he should be able to punch out Electro). Spider-Man beating Sandman by taking advantage of his natural weakness to things like water works just fine.

    There's always a way to sell a weaker character beating a stronger one... it's just a matter of the writer doing a good enough job selling it. That's the difference between good writing and bad. I don't recall the specific fight between Falcon/Bucky and the Crew, so I can't really judge how well the writer handled it. If it in anyway involved Falcon or Bucky knocking out the crew with kicks or punches or whatever, then I think it's fair to argue they were jobbed as as they theoretically shouldn't be able to physically hurt let alone beat them. But if they somehow someway managed to outsmart them and beat them, that's hardly outside the realm of possibility. It just depends HOW it was done.
    Exactly. And this is what I have been saying pretty much my last several post.

  9. #144
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    Elector was at one point at the same power level as Magneto back in his prime. So yeah I would say they are.
    And you'd be wrong, because of Spidey's intelligence. That would be enough to keep up with Electro, and Sandman, and Hydro Man. Raw power versus versatility. All three have exploitable weaknesses. It's what helps the FF against extremely powerful foes too, same with Black Panther.

    Falcon and Bucky don't have the same resources those guys do.
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."


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  10. #145
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Kamikaze10 View Post
    And you'd be wrong, because of Spidey's intelligence. That would be enough to keep up with Electro, and Sandman, and Hydro Man. Raw power versus versatility. All three have exploitable weaknesses. It's what helps the FF against extremely powerful foes too, same with Black Panther.

    Falcon and Bucky don't have the same resources those guys do.
    Falcon and Bucky were both trained by the greatest strategist in the MU. I'm pretty sure they can give most villains a run for their money when it comes to combat effectiveness due to skilled planning solo. Together its no contest especially against guys like the Wrecking Crew.

  11. #146
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    Falcon and Bucky were both trained by the greatest strategist in the MU. I'm pretty sure they can give most villains a run for their money when it comes to combat effectiveness due to skilled planning solo. Together its no contest especially against guys like the Wrecking Crew.
    You're wasting your breath, mate. If someone doesn't respect the character, no amount of logic is going to sway them.

    Right now, you're (well, me too now) just bumping this ignorant topic up, keeping it on the front page. Let it die the death it was meant. :D
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  12. #147
    Imagination and Bravery Double 0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    Falcon and Bucky were both trained by the greatest strategist in the MU. I'm pretty sure they can give most villains a run for their money when it comes to combat effectiveness due to skilled planning solo. Together its no contest especially against guys like the Wrecking Crew.
    That excuse didn't fly for Cap and Fury vs the U-Foes. Hell, people didn't take that excuse for Cap vs Spidey.

    Why is it valid for Sam and Bucky against guys that should be able to turn them into paste with a slap again?

    And before we start with this ignorance mess, please note that i've every volume of Captain America. From kirby up.
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."


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  13. #148
    Half Man, Half Amazing hysang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    You're wasting your breath, mate. If someone doesn't respect the character, no amount of logic is going to sway them.

    Right now, you're (well, me too now) just bumping this ignorant topic up, keeping it on the front page. Let it die the death it was meant. :D
    Agreed. Besides, there are plenty of good stories with Sam.

  14. #149
    Elder Member celticguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamorsTrident View Post
    And Yet Spiderman Faces guy's like Electro and Sandman every other day and beats them all the time. Both Characters extremely outside of his weight class. Celtic your argument in this particular case in which you are presenting it is invalid.
    Electro really? you web your hands and pummel him how hard is that? Sandman is tough but that is where Peter's science backgound usually shines when he finds ways to contain him. That is the thing with spidey he is not just strong, fast and agile he is also very smart. He brings a lot to the table and can fins a way to contribute with any type of foe from a mugger to thanos.

    Widow, and Falcon if the situation is right can be of use but they have huge limitations. There are many foes that if it was any sense of realism would snap their neck pretty quick. They win becasue they are the good guy and they will find the logshot that come true or they are lucky in some way. Same with others like Moonknight etc. There are people smarter, stronger, faster, and more agile than spidey but I don't know if anyone beats him in all areas. That makes him extremely useful.

  15. #150
    Elder Member celticguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    You're wasting your breath, mate. If someone doesn't respect the character, no amount of logic is going to sway them.

    Right now, you're (well, me too now) just bumping this ignorant topic up, keeping it on the front page. Let it die the death it was meant. :D
    It is not a case of not respecting a character. I like Falcon I liked him years ago as partners with Cap I liked him working with Bucky. I enjoy the friendship with Cap a lot. That does not mean I thing it is realistic that he can beat omega level powere of can hold his own against Thor's foes. It is nothing to do with respect it is just who he is. There is no shame in it.

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