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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinton View Post
    This. I see threads like this, along with alll of the detracting comments in here, and I start to doubt the adage that 'kids don't read comics'.

    The critiques in this thread read like commentary from a ten year old, where comics are all about comparing who can beat who. I don't know about OP and the rest of the peanut gallery here, but I got over that sort of BS a long time ago. I now look for compelling stories about these characters, not powersets.

    If comics were made up only of Galactus vs Beyonder fights, it would be dull as sh*t.

    Seriously, people. Take a moment to think before you type. There is so much rubbish clogging this forum right now it's kind of disheartening to even attempt to read it.

    Thank you for saving me the time and effort.

  2. #62

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    I've liked Falcon as a character for years, but he just doesn't fit on an Avengers roster. When you name a character after an animal, they should at least mimic said animal's behaviour. He needs a new costume without any flashy colours, miniseries with a high profile writer, and a story that takes him away from the heavy-hitters and places him at street level where he belongs.

  3. #63
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursaiz View Post
    I've liked Falcon as a character for years, but he just doesn't fit on an Avengers roster. When you name a character after an animal, they should at least mimic said animal's behaviour. He needs a new costume without any flashy colours, miniseries with a high profile writer, and a story that takes him away from the heavy-hitters and places him at street level where he belongs.
    He flies. That's about as much mimicking as Wolverine does... and he's got an even gaudier costume.

    Besides, we're talking about the Avengers. If you don't have a flashy costume, then you need not apply for membership.
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  4. #64
    Veteran Member JaggedFel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The other issue in regards to Falcons placement on the team, is that we can't entirely discount the power of nepotism.

    Sam is probably Steve's best friend. When you're making an Avengers team from scratch, rather than allowing fate to decide (a common practice for Steve), Sam will probably always show up pretty early on Steve's personal list. Iron Man and Thor are likely at the top of Steve's list, but odds are if it were up to Steve Sam would ALWAYS at least make top 5. The only reason Sam isn't an Avenger more oftem IMO is frankly because I don't think he ever really wanted to be one.
    Yeah Steve does rely on the power of fate. I mean look at the Illuminati that is basically your pure power, expertise and resource team its not constructed on the basis of friendship like most teams its built by who currently is at the top of the food chain in various areas.
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  5. #65
    Half Man, Half Amazing hysang's Avatar
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    Yes, because a dude with arrows or a russian spy in a leather bodysuit surely trump someone who can fly and communicate with birds.

    (cough)


  6. #66
    Half Man, Half Amazing hysang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursaiz View Post
    I've liked Falcon as a character for years, but he just doesn't fit on an Avengers roster. When you name a character after an animal, they should at least mimic said animal's behaviour. He needs a new costume without any flashy colours, miniseries with a high profile writer, and a story that takes him away from the heavy-hitters and places him at street level where he belongs.
    So Wolverine should just randomly attack rabbits and bears, Spider-Man should shoot webs out of his butt and Black Panther should go into heat and start spraying stuff.

    And Ant-Man definitely needs to start spitting acid.


  7. #67
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    why don't one of the avenger scientists just build falcon a force-field or something to make him more durable. seems a lot of people have problems with falcon because he's a big flying target.

  8. #68
    Star Blazer Will.S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    why don't one of the avenger scientists just build falcon a force-field or something to make him more durable. seems a lot of people have problems with falcon because he's a big flying target.
    Not a bad idea actually.

  9. #69
    Half Man, Half Amazing hysang's Avatar
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    Not when he's written well, he isn't. I'm sure writers like Jeph Loeb see him that way.

    Falcon should be moving at a pretty high speed...not even the Punisher should be able to get a bead on him.

  10. #70
    Elder Member celticguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PupsOfWar View Post
    What abilities does someone like Wolverine have that the powerhouses don't?
    Wolverine is hard to kill and does some damage in melee.
    Hulk is harder to kill and does more damage.
    Thor is at least as hard to kill and does more damage.
    Hyperion is harder to kill and does more damage.
    Captain Marvel is at least as hard to kill and does more damage.

    If the criterion is "Can others take or put out as much damage as X member" then Wolverine fails.

    Spider-woman can fly and shoot energy-blasts.
    Captain Universe, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Hyperion, Thor and Cannonball can fly faster and fire more powerful energy-blasts.
    Spider-woman has a unique ability and skills to contribute, sure, but that's her pheremones and spy abilities.

    Which are the same kind of specialized, non-strictly-martial abilities that you're rejecting in Falcon's case.
    Pheremones and espionage skill are generally useful, but how is it that you think they're more likely to be useful against alien space-gods from the far-flung cosmos than what Falcon does?

    You still haven't provided a reason why Falcon, who isn't nearly as fast a flier as some of the powerhouses or as potent a damage-dealer as some of the powerhouses, should be excluded while someone like spider-woman, who also isn't nearly as fast a flier as some of the powerhouses or as potent a damage-dealer as some of the powerhouses, shouldn't be.

    Can spider-woman contribute? Absolutely. She's a tough and savvy heroine with some specialized abilities that make her useful in a non-martial role while not being a pushover in a martial role.
    Falcon can also contribute. He's a tough and savvy hero with some specialized abilities (His communications and recon through the birds and the various gadgets in his flight harness) that make him useful in a not-strictly-martial role while not being a pushover in a martial role.

    Neither of them contribute significantly in the areas of mobility and offensive punch when compared to some of the other team-members, which is the criterion you've established for whatever reason. I don't think the exclusions you're lobbying for hold up when applied to your focus on which characters are of max utility as offensive threats.
    Thor and Hulk are off the board I don't know how you expect Cap to call them up when they are already captured.
    Spider woman strength flight venom blasts durability phermones and spy skills. Falcon flight talks to birds and spy skills advantage Spider woman.
    Wolverine healing factor, heightened senses, claws, spy skills Falcon flight talks to birds and spy skills advantage Wolverine
    Spiderman strength, speed agility, spider sense, Science skill Falcon flight talks to birds and spyh skills advantage spiderman
    Widow spy skills limited healing factor and gadgets Falcon fight talks to birds spy skills advantage wash
    Hawkeye spy skills, weapns skills, aracher fadget arrows,(Unknown super power that have not been explained from when Tony machine took him down) Falcon fight talks to birds spy skills advantage Hawkeye barely.

    Falcon brings nothing to the table that is not already there except talk to birds which can be useful and Sam when written well is useful but not in this mission. Assuming they put them on teams and he is on a different squad than Hawkeye or Widow he can be their stealh spy guy.



    I like the idea of giving him a force field or making his wings more of a weapon like Angel got a while back can make him more functional.

    At the end of the day he is as good as he is written like all characters. In a team it is a good mix of powers some overlap is fine, often their are a number of flyers. Widow anf Falcon don't bring anything to the table that is not already there when the whole team is together. When broken up into smaller teams they can handle the spy stuff and fight the henchman types. You do not have to be a powerhouse to contribute but you need to do something nobody else can do. Talking to birds is not enough for me.

    The idea he is useful because he has a good personality is dumb. His personality is however he is written to be. He has been writtern well and poorly like anyone else.

  11. #71
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    why don't one of the avenger scientists just build falcon a force-field or something to make him more durable. seems a lot of people have problems with falcon because he's a big flying target.
    Course, then you have to start raising the question of why don't they make force fields for everyone.

    I guess you could kind of argue the hard light wings were effectively a force field, if he wanted to use them in that manner though. Shame those didn't stick around.

  12. #72
    Senior Member NamorsTrident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    why don't one of the avenger scientists just build falcon a force-field or something to make him more durable. seems a lot of people have problems with falcon because he's a big flying target.
    Personally, I don't think he needs an upgrade. Characters are usually at their best when qualities they already posses are highlighted and then turned into formidable attributes. Besides he has had upgrades in the past

    Here:


    And Here:


    And they did very little for the character. In actuality they these designs probably set him back even further. A good writer wanting to make Falcon a star is all he really needs.

    Edit: If something really needed to be added I would go to the Super Hero Squad and A:EMH for help. Using the wings "feathers" as projectiles. But that is as far as I would go with upgrades.
    Last edited by NamorsTrident; 12-30-2012 at 10:35 AM.

  13. #73
    Groupthink is Groupthink neohuey89's Avatar
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    Didn't falcon go toe to toe with spiderman one time?

  14. #74
    Elder Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neohuey89 View Post
    Didn't falcon go toe to toe with spiderman one time?
    Course, the sad truth is really who hasn't gone toe to toe with Spider-Man? Poor Peter will often go toe to toe with just about any street leveler with a black belt in the MU. Not a diss against Falcon, but if he was able to go toe to toe with Spidey in a straight fight, it was probably because Spidey held back a little (something he had a tendency of doing against more street level people). Then again, I don't recall the exact fight you're talking about, so perhaps Falcon fought in a way which made perfect sense.

  15. #75
    Elder Member celticguy's Avatar
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    IDK Hawkeye gota lot more versatile when he was shown to be a master of weapons and a competent fighter and not just a guy who slings arrows. He does not need to become Ironfalcon but a little more duability or offensive power does give the writer more options.

    Funny how some of the same people who called Luke Cage too street are pushing for Falcon to fight godlings.

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