"Peter Parker fans will fade away" (ASM #700 and SSM Spoilers)

[Chris S.]

With all the negativity surrounding ASM 700 it seems appropriate to remind people that when Marvel says "it's permanent" they are just plain lying to people just to create hype to sell more of their books.

I think that Marvel assumes that all of their fans are brain dead readers who will gooble most of everything up when they put dead, or end of series or something else in their title and publicity.

How many characters did Marvel kill off so far just to bring them back and fans still fall for that trap over and over and over by buying tons of copies of over hyped said issue. Spider-man being yet again a victim of that stupid thread.

The problem with these stories is that when the hero comes back, all the books you read from the death to the return will be worth less than toilet paper after that. Marvel will have taken your money with their artificially hype storyline and will run away with it.

Marvel has lost the ability to generate sales thru good storyline and art. Now their gimmick is to create "gimmick events" as much as they can logically make so that people buy their book. This all started with Quesada who kicked things in high gear when he was EIC and it seems that Marvel is happy to keep it going.

A damn shame that people are so faithful to a company that has to basically prostitute itself now to sell books since they cant seem to be able to do it any other way.

But the bright side is that people are starting to wake up now and are actually starting to blast the creators of these "gimmick" events and i like it. I hope that this becomes a big wake up call at Marvel and that they are thought a lesson that you cant take fans for idiots for a very long time without suffering the consequences in the long run!

Is this exclusive to Marvel? Doesn't DC do the same sort of thing?

[The Angry Comic Book Critic]

Is this exclusive to Marvel? Doesn't DC do the same sort of thing?

yep every company does nothing new

[Raphael Edwards]

Ryan is one of the most thoughtful and cool posters here and all-around awesome guy.

Pblimp, I know you don't wanna hear "PP will be back in a year" but I have to say that----by and large----when these dramatic moves are made to shake up a title, they usually result in increased dramatic tension, new story situations and---most importantly---a renewed appreciation for our hero when he returns (and he usually returns somewhat changed with a new mindset/approach).

So----I guess what I'm saying is these sort of shakeups are really kind of necessary every so often or else the characters all fall prey to the dreaded staleness. No one is immune----not even the great Stan Lee who was in a creative lull late in his run on ASM and gave our hero 6 arms only to leave the title for a few months, returned and wrote some pretty bland issues before Gerry Conway came on and killed off Gwen to ---wait for it----shake things up. It's all part of the comic book "circle of life", man. Hang in there and I hope you dig it again when PP is back, if not sooner.

I've watched his replies, and I agree with you, he is pretty cool to speak with, even if we may disagree here and there, and I think of you in the same light oldschool honestly. I've been lurking on this board longer than posting, and even some years back you've always been a likable poster.

But yeah, you're ultimately right on this, and after listening to Dan over on Word Balloon, which I spoke about in detail in another topic here, my anger or displeasure has subsided a lot. I honestly suggest it to anyone still angered over things, or just plain against this new status quo.

[The Angry Comic Book Critic]

Honestly I'm done with marvel after this latest cancellation and Fuck you to the long term fan base. I simply have no more reason to continue. Maybe when Amazing comes back with it's proper numbering I'll be back but for the foreseeable future it's a wrap

[oldschool]

I've watched his replies, and I agree with you, he is pretty cool to speak with, even if we may disagree here and there, and I think of you in the same light oldschool honestly. I've been lurking on this board longer than posting, and even some years back you've always been a likable poster.

But yeah, you're ultimately right on this, and after listening to Dan over on Word Balloon, which I spoke about in detail in another topic here, my anger or displeasure has subsided a lot. I honestly suggest it to anyone still angered over things, or just plain against this new status quo.

Glad to hear it and thanks for the kind words!

[Ari Gold]

With all the negativity surrounding ASM 700 it seems appropriate to remind people that when Marvel says "it's permanent" they are just plain lying to people just to create hype to sell more of their books.

Can't seem to dig up the quote now, but pretty sure after Peter revealed his identity in Civil War, Quesada said at the time something to the effect that "this won't simply be put back with a magical genie".

[Mister Mets]

Can't seem to dig up the quote now, but pretty sure after Peter revealed his identity in Civil War, Quesada said at the time something to the effect that "this won't simply be put back with a magical genie".

His comment was that it wasn't a Bobby Ewing situation, referring to the scene in Dallas in which an entire season was revealed to be a dream in order to explain why a character who was killed off was still alive.

[Ari Gold]

His comment was that it wasn't a Bobby Ewing situation, referring to the scene in Dallas in which an entire season was revealed to be a dream in order to explain why a character who was killed off was still alive.

I guess (and that did help with my google search) . . . but he still did say this

"It can be very intimidating if you don't know where the story is going or how it ends; we do, so we're just excited about where it takes us and the story possibilities it offers," Joe Quesada, Marvel's editor-in-chief, said Wednesday.He also promised that Marvel won't be backing-off of Spidey's big revelation by zapping the public with a forget-me ray or saying the press conference was a dream or a hoax.

"We won't be pulling a Bobby Ewing with this."

All I'm saying is that calling the current status quo "permanent" is no less finite than saying the Unmasking won't be undone with a forget-me ray.

[Darthbobvilla]

It is sad to see that writers have to rely on shock events to make sales go up. While i am not that old i have had access to a lot of old spidey stories and "most" of the time Stan and the subsequent did not have to rely on these kind of things to keep readership coming back. Ok there was the death of Gwen and GG but it was done for the sake of the story at the time. I dont think they really meant it as being a gimmick event at the time since spider-man thrived very well after that anyways.

The sad thing is that marvel throws a plot forward and have to take it back all the time thus voiding any logical sense of continuity. Like the unmasking, marriage amongst other things. I think that the writers are just brain dead.

When most of the silver age comics started you had a different villain coming up in each book....the first 2 years of asm introduced so many villains in the spider-man universe and it kept fans coming back. Why cant a writer come up with this kind of formula is beyond me. They have to always use the same antagonist over and over with gimmick storylines. They have the brain power to do this but not the intelligence to come up with new villains and plots? C'mon gimme a break. Is there an unknown law at Marvel that states that you cannot create any new villains for your heroes in every issue or every few issues?

[DV1Band]

There were a bunch of villains that could have been brought back, that just went unused...

[Chris S.]

It is sad to see that writers have to rely on shock events to make sales go up.

The industry has been relying on shock events for readership for years. This has really been going on since the 80s and this notion it is new is totally false. Just go back and look at all the issues that ended in cliffhangers.

I'd also add that we have solid books like Daredevil and Hawkeye that don't sell well. It is the unfortunate truth of the industry. Readers like the gimmicks and if it works it is what will happen.

[Mark_S]

I've watched his replies, and I agree with you, he is pretty cool to speak with, even if we may disagree here and there, and I think of you in the same light oldschool honestly. I've been lurking on this board longer than posting, and even some years back you've always been a likable poster.

But yeah, you're ultimately right on this, and after listening to Dan over on Word Balloon, which I spoke about in detail in another topic here, my anger or displeasure has subsided a lot. I honestly suggest it to anyone still angered over things, or just plain against this new status quo.

I can understand why your anger has subsided, but it took an interview to do it. I'm not sure I could sit through it. To me it would be like watching the Sunday morning political shows and hearing the talking points over and over again.

[Raphael Edwards]

I can understand why your anger has subsided, but it took an interview to do it. I'm not sure I could sit through it. To me it would be like watching the Sunday morning political shows and hearing the talking points over and over again.

lol Maybe it's because I'm a bit older now, but I really got so deep into the political shows this year. The Presidential race was so intense to watch and debate.

And yeah, it took me listening to him in an interview to bring my anger down, but I was more irked by it because I wish that he and Wacker or whoever would come here and talk with us about it in their free time to express their reasons and ease fears. I honestly think it'd stop a lot of the rage fans have, but maybe I'm too optimistic.

If you're ever bored, give it a listen though. You can just skim through it as it allows you to fast forward and such anyway.

[refrax5]

He was joking.

I don't think Marvel is planning to phase out Peter Parker in favour of Doctor Octopus in Peter Parker's body.

Now, maybe Doc Ock will die and then Miles Morales will take over.

When that happens, then we can raise a fuss the likes of which Spider-Man hasn't seen since 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and two days ago.

Ha! Best post I've read today.

[refrax5]

Eh, I can't really see Peter killing Ock after he regains his full body back honestly. It was something he was basically forced to do in 700, so it was understandable then.

And to mention, that's another part of this that irks me, having to wait until whenever to read stories with Peter in them again.




I don't think that's the case here though. It's the way this transition into new and different territory is happening that I believe has more people upset than anything.





Nah, getting rid of his fans isn't what I meant. I'm asking what are their honest opinions on Peter as a character in relation to his legacy as Spider-Man. Do they feel that the alter ego is overall more important to what fans want and such, you know?

Like how they said they want to put out a more dark and creepy Batman-like Spider-Man for instance. I don't think that's what our wants and wishes are as fans overall when it comes to Spider-Man, so that seems like something they personally want.

.

I wouldn't want it to be permanent, and honestly, I don't really know how I feel about the upcoming storyline. It seems odd that anyone would think, "Here's a great and logical idea: Otto Octavius as the new Spider-Man!" It just screams of one of those things that I'd explain to my non-comic book reading friends and they'd roll their eyes. And those comments about a darker, more Batman-esque Spidey, if they were made seriously, just seem....well, ridiculous. For one thing, we already have a brilliant version of that in Scarlet Spider. For another, the idea of making Spider-Man "All dark and kewl like Batman" just reeks of....well, it reeks.

That said, I'm sure it's just going to be a temporary status quo that will, of course, end with Peter's triumphant return in a year or two. Maybe we'll get some kind of interesting stories in the meantime. You never know. I thought Marvel bringing Bucky back was the dumbest, most desperate sounding thing on Earth, but it ended up being one of my favorite runs on Cap.

I just don't get terribly upset about this kind of thing when it comes to main characters because, whether it's the best thing on Earth or the worst thing, it's not really going to last in the long run and Peter will be back eventually. So I'm going to check it out and see if it's entertaining or interesting. If it is, great. We'll have a nice change of pace for a while. If it sucks, then I'll save the money and try out something else, you know?

In my mind, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man, just like Steve Rogers IS Captain America or Clark Kent IS Superman, etc. That doesn't mean you can't have fun stories with someone else in the role. I'm not worried about Peter. Peter's just been put on the shelf for a while. I'm more just curious as to where Ock will end up when all is said and done. It's more of a drastic change for Otto's character than anything else.

Of course Peter is Spider-Man and no one else (not even, as much as I like them, Miles, Miguel, Kaine or Ben) will ever properly replace him. But the worst case scenario is that one day, we all go, "Man, remember when Doc Ock was Spider-Man? That was weird as hell."