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  1. #46
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Naming all of the other comics, where these basic details (where the hero lives, makes a living, etc) aren't addressed doesn't make a case for Wonder Woman. So, these other comics have bad editors - so what? We aren't asking for so much to know where she lives and how she pays for it, and I don't see how what's going on in other comics has anything to do with that?

    There's things that are standard comic book fare. Between Bryan Azzarello and the editor, Zola and Lennox should have last names (surnames), ..and Wonder Woman, at the very least, should have a base-of-operations.

    No one here has effectively argued WHY these small details are such an imposition on the creators. I am still waiting for that argument...

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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    Naming all of the other comics, where these basic details (where the hero lives, makes a living, etc) aren't addressed doesn't make a case for Wonder Woman. So, these other comics have bad editors - so what? We aren't asking for so much to know where she lives and how she pays for it, and I don't see how what's going on in other comics has anything to do with that?
    Showcasing that WW isn't the only place where method of income is omitted.
    There's things that are standard comic book fare. Between Bryan Azzarello and the editor, Zola and Lennox should have last names (surnames), ..and Wonder Woman, at the very least, should have a base-of-operations.
    Base of Operations: London
    Surnames: It's a visual medium, adding surnames is pretty irrelevant.

    No one here has effectively argued WHY these small details are such an imposition on the creators. I am still waiting for that argument...

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    They serve no point in the story that's being told.

  3. #48
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Showcasing that WW isn't the only place where method of income is omitted.


    Base of Operations: London
    Surnames: It's a visual medium, adding surnames is pretty irrelevant.



    They serve no point in the story that's being told.
    You don't know that Wonder Woman's base-of-operations is London, Outside.

    You don't know, because Mr. Azzarello hasn't told us that yet. You don't know that Diana isn't an independently wealthy woman, leasing a suite of rooms in a hotel, while on an extended stay in London. We don't know that set of rooms you see she and the other surnameless supporting players drifting through, every few issues, is Wonder Woman's home ..or even if they're in a large townhouse or a condominium, ..because Mr. Azzarello and Mr. Idelson haven't bothered to tell us that, yet.

    London is not Diana's base-of-operations. Nowhere in any of the fifteen issues we've read were we told that Wonder Woman lives or resides in London. Where have we read that Wonder Woman will be in London for the next two hundred or so issues ..or even until the end of the story or after that? We haven't, and I don't care what anyone has read in an interview, because we all know that nothing is certain or matters, until it's actually in the comic, featured in a story.

    Of course the little details matter, ..as much in Wonder Woman, as they have anywhere else.

    Barry Allen worked for the Central City Police Department.

    Hal Jordan was a test pilot for Ferris and lived in a house, somewhere in Star City.

    Clark Kent...a reporter for the Daily Planet, keeping an apartment somewhere in Metropolis.

    Bruce Wayne...Wayne Foundation...Wayne Manor...Gotham City.

    Wonder Woman presently has NO base-of-operations. We do not know where in Hades she lives or how she makes her money, because Mr. Azzarello and Mr. Idelson haven't or 'can't be bothered' to tell us.

    Those details don't have to have a relevant point in the story. That the story is being told in a comic book, which is a genre, as much as a medium, is all that matters. Since Mr. Azzarello is writing stories for a comic book that we happen to love, and Mr. Idelson is editing that comic, we expect things. Writing for comics comes with a set of narrative standards that most comic readers expect to be part of a story, and those expectations should be respected, ..at least, by the editors.

    We appreciate Mr. Azzarello's work to buy his comic for fifteen issues. I dropped the comic with the shabbily told 'Sirracca' story in Issue #14, peeked an online preview of Issue #15 and hopped right back onboard for more abuse, ..because I appreciate where I think he's taking the character and tone of Wonder Woman's adventures. Just the same, I expect the genre we're reading to be respected and certain small comic book standards acknowledged; not because they're relevant to the story, ..but simply because I am reading a comic.

    If Mr. Azzarello and mr. idelson don't want to work in comics, write and edit Wonder Woman or can't be bothered with telling us where she lives or how she makes a living, let them go write and edit something else. We're not asking for so much, here - nothing that couldn't be fixed with one panel.
    Last edited by MelDyer; 01-05-2013 at 02:23 AM. Reason: clarity, emphasis
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    You don't know that Wonder Woman's base-of-operations is London, Outside.

    You don't know, because Mr. Azzarello hasn't told us that yet. You don't know that Diana isn't an independently wealthy woman, leasing a suite of rooms in a hotel, while on an extended stay in London. We don't know that set of rooms you see she and the other surnameless supporting players drifting through, every few issues, is Wonder Woman's home ..or even if they're in a large townhouse or a condominium, ..because Mr. Azzarello and Mr. Idelson haven't bothered to tell us that, yet.

    London is not Diana's base-of-operations. Nowhere in any of the fifteen issues we've read were we told that Wonder Woman lives or resides in London. Where have we read that Wonder Woman will be in London for the next two hundred or so issues ..or even until the end of the story or after that? We haven't, and I don't care what anyone has read in an interview, because we all know that nothing is certain or matters, until it's actually in the comic, featured in a story.
    Her apartment just happens to be in London, so we don't have a reason to think it's anywhere else.

    Of course the little details matter, ..as much in Wonder Woman, as they have anywhere else.

    Barry Allen worked for the Central City Police Department.

    Hal Jordan was a test pilot for Ferris and lived in a house, somewhere in Star City.

    Clark Kent...a reporter for the Daily Planet, keeping an apartment somewhere in Metropolis.

    Bruce Wayne...Wayne Foundation...Wayne Manor...Gotham City.

    Wonder Woman presently has NO base-of-operations. We do not know where in Hades she lives or how she makes her money, because Mr. Azzarello and Mr. Idelson haven't or 'can't be bothered' to tell us.
    Her home is in London, her missions just take her beyond the city limits.

    Those details don't have to have a relevant point in the story. That the story is being told in a comic book, which is a genre, as much as a medium, is all that matters. Since Mr. Azzarello is writing stories for a comic book that we happen to love, and Mr. Idelson is editing that comic, we expect things. Writing for comics comes with a set of narrative standards that most comic readers expect to be part of a story, and those expectations should be respected, ..at least, by the editors.

    We appreciate Mr. Azzarello's work to buy his comic for fifteen issues. I dropped the comic with the shabbily told 'Sirracca' story in Issue #14, peeked an online preview of Issue #15 and hopped right back onboard for more abuse, ..because I appreciate where I think he's taking the character and tone of Wonder Woman's adventures. Just the same, I expect the genre we're reading to be respected and certain small comic book standards acknowledged; not because they're relevant to the story, ..but simply because I am reading a comic.

    If Mr. Azzarello and mr. idelson don't want to work in comics, write and edit Wonder Woman or can't be bothered with telling us where she lives or how she makes a living, let them go write and edit something else. We're not asking for so much, here - nothing that couldn't be fixed with one panel.
    It's in issue 1 where she lives, and you are just asking for pointless trivia that's not going to ever be used for anything.

  5. #50
    Senior Member hellacre's Avatar
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    This story is like its dropped in the middle of continuity. Sure you don't have to know to enjoy about the money or why London but for some fans they want to know because it connects some dots and there is nothing wrong with asking that.

    Stuff like why and where is not a lot to ask especially if you in WW for not only Azzarello and for WW. Some readers might leave the character when he goes but there are others who won't. What Perez took his time to set up in the last reboot was important and laid the foundation. There are building blocks to stories and where someone lives, how they came to be there, what they do, who they meet is very important. He addressed them. Gotham, Metropolis have their own character as cities and as base of operations and most comic fans know what they basically are and why they mean somthing to the heroes there. Azzarello is world building, so yeah, it's kind of expected by some readers to look at some of this stuff.

    London for now seems just as a backdrop. There are no players here in London itself to make it mean much. The money too is a fair point.

    Could it be that this is a few years after her debut in the US and working with Argus and after breaking up with Steve she goes to London to get away from the press etc? Mind the media in London can be worst then the US. Plus the Embankment and Tower Bridge is always crammed with tourists etc. For the life of me how she is not recognized is mind boggling. She fought out in the open. Americans visit London , you know. So even if the excuse is Londoners don't notice, which is odd, well busy body Americans might see something. Unless magic etc makes her "indistingushable". That'd make sense too.

    Now a simple reference to that would have helped. It's as if nothing exists outside of Diana living in London. We're to assume time passes since meeting Zola. Not one friend has made a phone call to her? She confides in no one? Okay then I will assume she has no one improtant to her living in London. Is London the hellmouth like in Buffy her town was? I'd even buy that one why she was there. Seems so far why it is the choice is because it's Old World and all that and got maybe the atmosphere for "horror" as he had termed her book.

    If she left and went to live in London say a year ago (break up with Steve) makes sense she can't fly until Hermes gave her flight. Also it would not be Argus that funds her princess lifestyle. After mom and sisters were turned to stone and snakes, she probably auctions her stuff. Maybe she visits Christies a lot. As she is in London too, does she have things like a passport and stuff? And she using an alias? Does she have a middle man/woman to do her stuff? Does she shop for groceries and own clothes? She got a credit card? Least we know Clark would do it himself. His normal life has been shown in Action Comics. Bruce has Alfred. We know little of Diana's life really, other than she is on a single mission now that involves a lost baby and Gods.

    I think it all points to WW not going to stay there forever because there is nothing concrete to ground this base to make it vital to her mythos as Gotham, Metropolis, Starcity is to other heroes. But I could be wrong. Maybe we'll see some regular London people knocking on her door later on, and maybe even some regualr female friends she can hang with?
    Last edited by hellacre; 01-05-2013 at 05:49 AM.
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  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    No one here has effectively argued WHY these small details are such an imposition on the creators. I am still waiting for that argument...
    Frankly, I haven't seen much of an argument FOR that case either, other than "This is important stuff to me and so that I need to know it".

    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    You don't know that Wonder Woman's base-of-operations is London, Outside.
    Yes we do know that her BOO was London. That her adventures take her to Virginia, Libya, Hell and Olympus does not change that.
    http://www.dccomics.com/characters/w...oman-in-comics

    From the pages of WONDER WOMAN #0

    First Appearance:
    Wonder Woman #1 (2011)

    Base of Operations:
    London
    Right now, she has moved to a hotel suite in Manhattan, as evidenced by the luggage case here.



    It may or may not be her temporary place of residence. Or are heroes not allowed to change their bases of operation now?
    Last edited by The Man From Room X; 01-05-2013 at 04:53 AM.

  7. #52
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    Maybe Wonder Woman sold all her gold and the money she got are now her life savings and because she's poor now she can wear only silver?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    I think that's an unusually pessimistic, discouraging and completely unfounded thing to say, at this point in the discussion, Legato.

    Perhaps, it will get ugly. Just the same, ..isn't the tone and direction of this discussion up to Tsukino?

    Yes, a topic like this might get ugly or funny or crazy ..or brilliant. Let's not be so pessimistic that we unfairly discourage healthy, stimulating AND challenging intellectual exchanges between a postor and the forum community. I'm a part of that community, and I don't have any problems with this discussion, so far. Maybe, it will get ugly or weird, ..but, I think it's my right and the right of our fellow postors to follow the discussion to that point and make the decision, whether we participate, walk away or (only, as a last resort) ask that the discussion be closed.

    If you are presently participating in this discussion and welcome the possibility that it will be intense, funny, challenging or ugly, please step forward and share your thoughts. Let's encourage our fellow postors to do the same.

    All that said, I think Wonder Woman is either a drug dealer or a high-priced callgirl.

    LOL, pure gold

  9. #54
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    Every 30 years the Amazons go out and collect booty from the sailors. Maybe the Amazons got more booty before Diana was born and they gave the surplus booty to her?

  10. #55
    Darkseid's Lawyer MelDyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Her apartment just happens to be in London, so we don't have a reason to think it's anywhere else...Her home is in London, her missions just take her beyond the city limits...It's in issue 1 where she lives, and you are just asking for pointless trivia that's not going to ever be used for anything.
    Apartment? Where in issue #1 does it say she lives in an apartment, Outside?

    You're in such a rush to defend this sloppy comic story-telling and Idelson's sleep-at-the-wheel editing that you don't even know if she lives in an apartment or a hotel or a mansion? You don't know it - admit that much. You're making an assumption, amigo.

    We don't know any of it, ..and it does matter. In comics, it matters.
    "I collect beings like him and cut them open--so I can hold in my hand what makes them tick."
    Cassandra on Orion of the New Gods (Wonder Woman #26)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    Apartment? Where in issue #1 does it say she lives in an apartment, Outside?
    Have you ever been in London? Or are you just not aware of how the city is built and how people in it live?

    You're in such a rush to defend this sloppy comic story-telling and Idelson's sleep-at-the-wheel editing that you don't even know if she lives in an apartment or a hotel or a mansion? You don't know it - admit that much. You're making an assumption, amigo.
    Let go this by your route then:
    Clark's base of operations is in Mexico City, despite all the Metropolis situations, its never been nailed that it is base of operations...
    Bruce's base of operations is in Beijing, despite all the Gotham situations...

    can you see how silly it sounds?

    We don't know any of it, ..and it does matter. In comics, it matters.
    Please, its about as important as whenever she favors the Burger King or McDonalds copy.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelDyer View Post
    Apartment? Where in issue #1 does it say she lives in an apartment, Outside?

    You're in such a rush to defend this sloppy comic story-telling and Idelson's sleep-at-the-wheel editing that you don't even know if she lives in an apartment or a hotel or a mansion? You don't know it - admit that much. You're making an assumption, amigo.

    We don't know any of it, ..and it does matter. In comics, it matters.
    I don't know what your terminology for this kind of building is, but I would call it an apartment.




  13. #58
    Senior Member hellacre's Avatar
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    I have lived in London and I know where Diana is living location wise is expensive. Her choice of furnishing has zero to do with it. She has spartan like tastes in her bedroom that is all. It would cost a pound and a crown, be it she owns the flat or rents it. Big Ben does not seem to be too far from her flat judging by perspective. And she clearly is in walking distance of the Embankment. She is in the heart of London, where many of the big landmarks and where it is very populated, and always have tourists.
    Last edited by hellacre; 01-05-2013 at 08:46 AM.
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  14. #59
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    You know, someone without a secret identity isn't going to have that many family pictures hanging around since you know they sort of don't have that type of life.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Superdog's Avatar
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    It seems incredibly misogynistic to assume that a woman is working as a call girl because they have no visible source of income.
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