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  1. #46
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    [B][I]Damn Hawkeye's unlimited amount of arrows.
    Did you actually even see the film?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  2. #47
    Elder Member Free-Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post

    Yeah, there isn't much point of having street levelers in the Avengers. They should have just went with Ms. Marvel.
    The street levelers worked within the context of the film. Having two character who worked for SHIELD made it easy to introduce them since the audience already knows what SHIELD is. Thus you don't have to waste more screen time trying to give them origin stories.

    I think Joss Whedon even said he tried to include the Wasp but had to write her out because there was simply no way you could introduce a brand new heroine while already juggling that many characters.

  3. #48
    Uncanny Avengers Mod Washout's Avatar
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    I have a complicated relationship with the movie. When I first saw it in theaters I was really bored in the first half, and it was upsetting to me because I looked forward to it so much. It got better in the second half, but the whole time I was really irritated by the Whedon dialog. None of it bothered me on my second viewing.

    All in all, I liked the movie, but I don't think it is the greatest movie ever as so many other fans think. In fact, I like both Amazing Spider-man and Dark Knight Rises better.
    XPOTM:September 2010

  4. #49
    Wol with it. SuperCooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    Damn Hawkeye's unlimited amount of arrows.
    He eventually runs out of arrows.

    Actually, thinking back on it, Hawkeye was the one character who I thought wouldn't be handled all that well in the film, but the depiction of his trick arrows was beautifully done.
    Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    Having street leveler characters against an alien army invasion isn't really beneficial.
    It can be if they had a purpose. If there was a spaceship and someone had to sneak in for example, Widow would be the perfect candidate for the job. Or if they were trying to get the cube back in a stealthy manner, or used as a distraction for the heavy hitters to clean up. Stuff like that. All of those characters have strengths and weaknesses, it's up to Whedon on how they are best utilized in a given situation. The movie failed in that aspect, Widow and Hawkeye were pointless. Sam Jackson however wasn't, his role was very clear. Assemble the team and play politics.

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Did you actually even see the film?
    Yes but haven't seen it in a while.
    BB

  7. #52
    Senior Member PupsOfWar's Avatar
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    It was no better than "pretty solid".

    But a lack of Ant-Man seems like a silly reason to dislike it.
    As if that team needed another white dude.

    Wasp would have been okay.

    I can definitely see wishing Natasha were replaced by a different lady,
    in that I think there's a problem with the lone lady being such a recognized and stereotypical female-character-specific archetype: the femme fatale.
    That's an archetype that's all about women exploiting certain facets of a patriarchal world in order to empower themselves.
    Super-heroes and more fantastic fiction in general exist in part to transcend such paradigms, I feel. So I'm not sure why a progressively-minded movie would want to evoke that rather than having a lady who stands on equal footing with the Big Damn Superheroes in more respects.
    Not that femme-fatales can't be cool, but I really prefer them in an ensemble where they can be juxtaposed with more heroic femmes. (No, Maria Hill doesn't count, any more than Fury counts as the Avengers having a black dude as their leader).

  8. #53
    Elder Member Free-Man's Avatar
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    I don't think people seem to get that the main reason Black Widow was there was because she was pretty much the only lady hero they were in a position to use given the prior movies. They'd fumbled the ball with female heroes in general and Natasha was the only one they'd introduced and set-up in a prior movie. You can't just suddenly drop an entirely new character, regardless of race or gender, into a movie like that where so much was already going on.

    It wasn't about having a stereotype or wanting a character who can't be on equal footing with the boys. It was using whoever the hell they had available.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free-Man View Post
    I don't think people seem to get that the main reason Black Widow was there was because she was pretty much the only lady hero they were in a position to use given the prior movies. They'd fumbled the ball with female heroes in general and Natasha was the only one they'd introduced and set-up in a prior movie. You can't just suddenly drop an entirely new character, regardless of race or gender, into a movie like that where so much was already going on.

    It wasn't about having a stereotype or wanting a character who can't be on equal footing with the boys. It was using whoever the hell they had available.
    Problem is, there are no easy female superheroes they can just role into the movieverse. Too much of it is just building up the big brands.

  10. #55
    R.I.P. Dwayne McDuffie Greg Anderson's Avatar
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    Hmm. I personally found Black Widow to be my favorite character in the movie followed by Hawkeye.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Anderson View Post
    Hmm. I personally found Black Widow to be my favorite character in the movie followed by Hawkeye.
    While good, they still felt like they weren't given enough. They seem to be piggie backing Cap's future movies.

  12. #57
    Ex-Cheeks Reptisaurus!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Batson View Post
    Damn Hawkeye's unlimited amount of arrows.
    But when Thanos and the likes come, there isn't much use of those street levelers.
    Hawkeye beat the Grandmaster, after Thor, Wonder Man, Silver Surfer, Captain MonicaMarvel, Iron Man, She-Hulk et. al. went down.

    And it only took him one arrow.
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  13. #58
    Ex-Cheeks Reptisaurus!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songbird/Diamondback View Post
    I understand why they wouldn't.

    For one thing, Hawkeye and Black Widow are easy to bring into the movie. They're just secret agents. Ant-Man and Wasp need an extensive explanation.
    Make them secret agents! Okay, I kid, but the Wasp's origin in comics is highly problematic, and is probably gonna need a lot of retooling for the screen and redefining of both characters. (I assume they're going to be in the next Avengers movie.)
    MarkAndrew at Comics Should Be Good
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  14. #59
    Elder Member Free-Man's Avatar
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    Problem is, there are no easy female superheroes they can just role into the movieverse. Too much of it is just building up the big brands.
    Well of course. They build up the big brands because those are the most marketable and ones everyone recognizes. But there's no reason they couldn't introduce more lady heroes in supporting bits in other films before giving them bigger roles, like they did with Hawkeye and Black Widow and seem to be doing with the Falcon.

    Make them secret agents! Okay, I kid, but the Wasp's origin in comics is highly problematic, and is probably gonna need a lot of retooling for the screen and redefining of both characters. (I assume they're going to be in the next Avengers movie.)
    Wasp probably, Ant-Man, I don't think so. Ant-Man's solo film doesn't come out until AFTER Avengers 2 so I think he does show up there, it'll just be a cameo or shout-out. Wasp I could see because Whedon likes her and one of the most frequent complaints about the first movie was the team itself being pretty male and Caucasian.

  15. #60
    Ex-Cheeks Reptisaurus!'s Avatar
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    Wasp probably, Ant-Man, I don't think so. Ant-Man's solo film doesn't come out until AFTER Avengers 2 so I think he does show up there, it'll just be a cameo or shout-out. Wasp I could see because Whedon likes her and one of the most frequent complaints about the first movie was the team itself being pretty male and Caucasian.
    Ah, I didn't know that. (I care about comics way more than I care about movies.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Free-Man View Post
    Well of course. They build up the big brands because those are the most marketable and ones everyone recognizes. But there's no reason they couldn't introduce more lady heroes in supporting bits in other films before giving them bigger roles, like they did with Hawkeye and Black Widow and seem to be doing with the Falcon.
    Falcon's gonna be in Cap 2? Good, good... He's one of my very favorites. Here's hoping for bad-ass Christopher Priest or Kirby Falcon, not Falcon-who-gets-knocked-on-his-head-a-lot-and-has-to-get-saved-by-Cap Falcon.
    MarkAndrew at Comics Should Be Good
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