Nathaniel Grey (Shaman) VS Superman (Post-Crisis)

[Gram]

How does Nathaniel fare against Superman?

Obviously, this is post-crisis/pre-Flashpoint Superman and Nate in his prime.

Scenario 1: A straight up fight, anything goes.

Scenario 2: A battle of the minds. Nate's telepathy versus Superman's torquasm-vo.

[Pendaran]

So, Nate Grey did things with his mind like yank Xavier off the Astral plane, force him to be tangible, and basically lead to him having to fake his own getting killed to get out of that fight and the damage it would cause, and this was a Nate Grey when he was still in the "can barely use my powers because they are killing me" stage of things, not even when he would achieve Shaman level control over them. What do you feel Superman can do to him in a battle of the minds?

[Nik Hasta]

Can't Nath go without his body and still monster on fools just fine?

I don't think Supes is going to do well here.

Also, you just reminded me that torquasm-vo was a thing that happened at one point.

And now, by association, I have remembered that Superman having soul vision was also once a serious thing.

Why do you hate me so?

[BYC]

Does Nate have auto-shields? If not, Superman stomps the 1st. Nate stomps the 2nd.

[Gram]

Well, I don't think Superman's completely outmatched in the mind game.

For instance, Kal could resist mind control powerful enough to take over the entire superhero community.





That was fairly impressive.

Admittedly, Nate is still above him in that area; especially depending on how many minds he influenced when he linked Idris' mind to her other selves across parallel realities in issue 74 of X-Man.

[Pendaran]

But I wanted to know well Kal would fare against Nate.

In any battle that isn't physical? Terribly.

For instance, Kal could resist mind control powerful enough to take over the entire superhero community.

Out of curiosity, issue number?

[Estrecca]

Out of curiosity, issue number?

Google-fu tells me Adventures of Superman 622 or 623.

[Gram]

In any battle that isn't physical? Terribly.

Yeah, pretty much. However, I was curious about whether Kal could resist it to any extent.

Google-fu tells me Adventures of Superman 622 or 623.

That was probably it but I forgot to take note of the issue number.

EDIT:

How about a straight up fight?

I was thinking Nate could he ring-out Superman through teleportation. You know, like how he teleported Helen into the broken universe in issue 66 of X-Man.

[Captain Morgan]

I don't think I would put much stock in Kal bouncing something which enslaves J'onn-- especially when you look at their respective performances against Meggadledon and Despero and whatnot.

Similarly, crappier Lanterns than John have outright trumped dudes who mentally enslave planets in one on one combat-- I don't think John could be THAT far behind Superman.

[Pendaran]

I was curious about whether Kal could resist it to any extent.

The mental powers of pre depowerment Nate Grey are wildly beyond him. This is the guy who disperses the consciousnesses of planetary scale beings along with his own.

How about a straight up fight?

I was thinking Nate could he ring-out Superman through teleportation. You know, like how he teleported Helen into the broken universe in issue 66 of X-Man.

It would come down to his ability not to need a body, as physically he can be blitzed.

[Pendaran]

I don't think I would put much stock in Kal bouncing something which enslaves J'onn-- especially when you look at their respective performances against Meggadledon and Despero and whatnot.

Similarly, crappier Lanterns than John have outright trumped dudes who mentally enslave planets in one on one combat-- I don't think John could be THAT far behind Superman.

.. ugh, I missed that J'onn was there in the upper corner. Yeeeah that's rendering bunk the experience there.

[Captain Morgan]

I mean, I can deal with Superman having mental resistance-- high end even. But J'onn is a guy who can just casually manipulate the short term memory of Superman and the rest of the League without batting an eye. I don't think he is gonna get mindslaved where Clark isn't.

[Gram]

I don't think I would put much stock in Kal bouncing something which enslaves J'onn-- especially when you look at their respective performances against Meggadledon and Despero and whatnot.

Similarly, crappier Lanterns than John have outright trumped dudes who mentally enslave planets in one on one combat-- I don't think John could be THAT far behind Superman.

I guess it could be considered an outlier.

The mental powers of pre depowerment Nate Grey are wildly beyond him. This is the guy who disperses the consciousnesses of planetary scale beings along with his own.



It would come down to his ability not to need a body, as physically he can be blitzed.

Yeah, the Harvester fight in issue 75 was kinda cool. Though, it was kind of rushed in my opinion. The run needed more issues. There's also Nate's molecule manipulation, with how he phases and all that. He might be able to phase parts of Superman out of his body.

Anyway, how do we take the whole speed of thought (that it's faster than light) claim here? Is it accepted or not?

[Pendaran]

I mean, I can deal with Superman having mental resistance-- high end even. But J'onn is a guy who can just casually manipulate the short term memory of Superman and the rest of the League without batting an eye. I don't think he is gonna get mindslaved where Clark isn't.

He's also the guy that was able to shove his mind into Mageddon and not end up.. like Superman did.

[Pendaran]

I guess it could be considered an outlier.



Yeah, the Harvester fight in issue 75 was kinda cool. Though, it was kind of rushed in my opinion. The run needed more issues. There's also Nate's molecule manipulation, with how he phases and all that. He might be able to phase parts of Superman's out of his body.

Anyway, how do we take the whole speed of thought (that it's faster than light) claim here? Is it accepted or not?

It's not. Were speed not an issue, yes, he has many ways of just straight up destroying the guy. It's an issue.