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  1. #211
    for the lulz 7thangel's Avatar
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    due to the time (lobbying for awards season), this is always a busy time for dvd quality screeners, which 'mysteriously' end up on streaming and torrent sites.

  2. #212
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7thangel View Post
    due to the time (lobbying for awards season), this is always a busy time for dvd quality screeners, which 'mysteriously' end up on streaming and torrent sites.
    and Id be willing to be a lot of those come from the internet side of the entertainment business

    DHD had an article over the summer about screeners and how it may be tightened up as to who gets them and who doesn't, some studios aren't sending out screeners this year but are renting theaters and having screenings for Academy members that way
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  3. #213
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    one of my favorite movies was made by a complete nobody and his friends for 6K, I think. it had good storytelling. it didn't need flash, or 'sets' or effects, because it was busier telling a story.

    not that the argument isn't valid, but again, I've expressed my opinion that actors (not to devalue their craft or effort or work) are wildly overpaid.
    The only thing i can agree with you about this topic is the interesting thing is not the legality of the issue but the moral,the reasons people download. You mentioned Neil Gaiman and Coelho. Those are mong the biggest authors in the world. They have sold few million copies of some of their books. I saw an female author who were barely selling her books to make a living through small press publishers. There were sites that downloaded some of her books thousands of downloads. Think about the money she has lost that she dont have. Think about that. She isnt multi million selling author who is huge and dont care about losing money to pirace. James Patterson gets 30-40 million dollar contract from his publisher. He wont care about pirates he is already paid and he sells millions every year.

    All that other creators like that female author is the ones getting hurt by piracy. For me thats the issue, hurting authors,people in film/tv,muscians. They are not all over paid like hack actors like Shia Lebouf, Nick Cage, Tom Cruise or Patterson type authors.

    Breaking Bad is brilliant to me. I can watch Season 4-5 in Netflix but i also buy the DVD to support the creator, Bryan Cranston and co.
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  4. #214
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    Gaiman and Paolo Coelho have both seen boosts in sales after putting their own work into the world via pirate sites. and yes, of course, it is their work and they can do that and it's not illegal.
    so, okay, is downloading it illegal then? wouldn't we have permission if the creator and publisher agreed to put it up there? but that's an entirely different digression.
    It's not illegal in that case, since the creator has given permission (unless, of course, the author himself doesn't actually own the distribution rights). And I agree with you, things like this are great. But not everyone is Neil Gaiman. Not everyone is Radiohead. The vast majority will never be anywhere near their level. While Gaiman can afford to give away copies of his book like this, small independent authors can't.

    The justification of "I'm just sampling... I'll buy it if I like it" no longer works. There are SO many avenues to get free samples. Pretty much every artist puts some of - if not all - their songs up on Youtube. Movies and TV shows have previews. Some movies even have extended previews. A lot of TV shows, even premium ones, put the first episode online.

    I guess what I see is, there's something to be said for piracy outside of 'it's illegal' from the moral peanut gallery.
    I completely agree. But there's also more to be said than "it's available, people will keep doing it." I'm all for having free content and finding a way to feel that need that everyone seems to have for it. That's where Youtube and subscription services have come into play. And there's still a lot of room for improvement in that department. But at the same time, we also need to find a way to stop piracy and get people using these other methods that exist. Accepting it as an inevitability does nothing to solve the problem.
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  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libaax View Post
    I saw an female author who were barely selling her books to make a living through small press publishers. There were sites that downloaded some of her books thousands of downloads. Think about the money she has lost that she dont have. Think about that.
    but she's losing what? there's no solid anything to base the 'loss' on. sure, maybe some of those downloads would have been sales, but you can't begin to try and quantify that, because piracy does not equate to a lost sale.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    but she's losing what? there's no solid anything to base the 'loss' on. sure, maybe some of those downloads would have been sales, but you can't begin to try and quantify that, because piracy does not equate to a lost sale.
    and by that thinking neither Neil Gaiman or Radiohead should be commended for the actions they took, they have already made their money
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  7. #217
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    well look, Paolo and Neil have both put their thoughts out there more articulately than I, but the point is, piracy didn't cost them sales, it got them increased sales.

    so we can all sit here and say that not everyone is them, or Radiohead, or whoever, but in the end these people, people that have no problem selling work see an increase when they put their own work out there. that's factual numbers. proof and shit. theoretical lost sales? that's pie in the sky nonsense based on speculation. it sucks for the little guys - I go out of my way to support the little guys - but you have to imagine they're also gaining sales they wouldn't otherwise have. right?

  8. #218
    Observer Vibranium's Avatar
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    of course they have no problem, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain

    there was no risk involved
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  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    and by that thinking neither Neil Gaiman or Radiohead should be commended for the actions they took, they have already made their money
    The Radiohead thing was only temporary anyway, they put out an album told people they could pay what they want after their contract expired, then signed a new contract and the album was in stores.
    They were fucking around, not proving some point about internet downloading.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    of course they have no problem, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain

    there was no risk involved
    what does the lack of risk have to do with the evidence?

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    what does the lack of risk have to do with the evidence?
    I'm not disputing the evidence, as I have said before, I support it but I won't celebrate them for it

    and it worked because both Gaiman and Radiohead already have dedicated followings and have made their money....can someone who is trying to grow a fanbase replicate the same success?
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  12. #222
    Elder Member Libaax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    what does the lack of risk have to do with the evidence?
    What evidence? You are just showing that the only creators who dont have a problem with piracy is the biggest ones who have nothing to lose. They can only gain more fans since they already have big fanbases.

    People who have no trouble selling are the cream of the crop and not 90% of the regular creators who have much more to lose money wise.

    Immortal Technique who is underground rapper who sells like 80 000 cds usually let his latest Album be only for Download realese and not for sale. It was for marketing and getting more fans for his other real CDs,songs you have to buy. I hardly think he means you can download for free his older in store cds. Tell him he would make more money be making all his albums only for pirates so he can make more hypotical money in the future because of his new pirate fans....

    Your theory for the litte guys gaining sales they wouldnt have otherwise..... Heh there need to be more real evidence for piracy helping those guys. Thats is huge doubt.
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  13. #223
    Senior Member momaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    I'm not disputing the evidence, as I have said before, I support it but I won't celebrate them for it

    and it worked because both Gaiman and Radiohead already have dedicated followings and have made their money....can someone who is trying to grow a fanbase replicate the same success?
    There are heaps of new authors these days putting out chapters and entire books for free in order to build readership. With such a glut of entertainment options out there they need a hook to get people to pick up their stuff and give it a go. If anything it is more important and beneficial to those guys as they don't yet have a dedicated fan base to ensure sales to enable these so called "risk free" experiments. It's the same with a lot of independent bands giving away free tracks or albums and asking for either donations, merchandise sales or coming to see them live if you enjoyed it.

  14. #224
    Senior Member J. Robb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    But at the same time, we also need to find a way to stop piracy and get people using these other methods that exist. Accepting it as an inevitability does nothing to solve the problem.
    My own amateur prediction- file-sharing isn't going away. There will always be the "free" option. Money making will be in the ancillary business- like musicians selling "packages" with their music (merch, signed copies, even phone calls), and movie theatres selling popcorn and drinks (I don't think movie theatres are going away either, you can't download a night out.) The actual entertainment product itself is just a way to drawn in fans, once they show up you can work on getting their money.

  15. #225
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the goddamn batman View Post
    well look, Paolo and Neil have both put their thoughts out there more articulately than I, but the point is, piracy didn't cost them sales, it got them increased sales.

    so we can all sit here and say that not everyone is them, or Radiohead, or whoever, but in the end these people, people that have no problem selling work see an increase when they put their own work out there. that's factual numbers. proof and shit. theoretical lost sales? that's pie in the sky nonsense based on speculation. it sucks for the little guys - I go out of my way to support the little guys - but you have to imagine they're also gaining sales they wouldn't otherwise have. right?
    The "pie in the sky nonsense" of the people claiming they've lost sales is literally no different than Neil Gaiman saying he gained sales. If you can't draw a correlation between one, you have to treat the other one exactly the same.
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