"The Avengers," "Dark Knight Rises," "The Walking Dead" Among 2012's Most-Pirated

[Vibranium]

It is subjective, but it's also a cause for why sales have dipped. As I pointed out earlier, go look up revenue for concerts/tours for the last 10 years or so. It's almost entirely dominated by artists from the past and not the present. It's obviously not a clear cut indicator but its a decent reflection on the public's opinion of modern music.

its a factor, people are tired of getting ripped off at concerts...TicketMaster are borderline criminal, which has given rise to places like StubHub and TicketLeap (here in the Northeast)

[Phil Clark]

Cause we all know at the very least a couple of people who download thing here and then. And, prepare yourself to be amazed, they do also buy dvds, blu rays and they even go to watch movies in theaters sometimes.

But that doesn't mean jack shit.

Here is a point most people miss. Let's say you go into a store and steal something. You have committed a crime. If caught, you can be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for doing so. If you go back and buy another of what you originally stole, you still have previously committed the crime. Buying it does not make the previous crime go away, and you are still subject to arrest and prosecution.

It is the same thing with illegally downloading a movie or song or game. You have at that moment committed a crime. Even if you go to the store and buy the movie, CD or Game, the crime has already been committed, buying the product doesn't make the crime go away.

And in the case of downloading, many people share what they downloaded. Multiplying their offense because it is illegal to distribute copyrighted material without permission.

When you commit a crime, you cannot un-commit said crime. And as such, you are still a criminal subject to punishment if caught. And the "I won't get caught" claim only holds true for so long. If you continue to commit the crime, you could eventually get caught.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

[xnef1025]

I think the problem is you seem to be painting the housewife that downloads The Goodwife from torrent because football screws up her dvr's schedule with the same brush as the guy that sells burned copies of in theater movies and sells then out of a van on the corner.

The question of if a pirate is also a consumer depends on how wide your definition of a pirate is. The content industry leaders want to say that everyone that has ever downloaded a single thing in their lives is a dirty, stinking pirate, but there is a good majority of people that download and also purchase legal copies too. How can I say that? Well, there aren't 8 million guys selling burned copies of Walking Dead out there on the street corners are there, but there are some pretty healthy ratings and merch sales going on.

[Vibranium]

I think the problem is you seem to be painting the housewife that downloads The Goodwife from torrent because football screws up her dvr's schedule with the same brush as the guy that sells burned copies of in theater movies and sells then out of a van on the corner.

The question of if a pirate is also a consumer depends on how wide your definition of a pirate is. The content industry leaders want to say that everyone that has ever downloaded a single thing in their lives is a dirty, stinking pirate, but there is a good majority of people that download and also purchase legal copies too. How can I say that? Well, there aren't 8 million guys selling burned copies of Walking Dead out there on the street corners are there, but there are some pretty healthy ratings and merch sales going on.

both are the same to me and the law indicates that both are breaking the law

seems pretty simple IMO

[Shikidum]

Good luck with the prosecution.

[Phil Clark]

I think the problem is you seem to be painting the housewife that downloads The Goodwife from torrent because football screws up her dvr's schedule with the same brush as the guy that sells burned copies of in theater movies and sells then out of a van on the corner.

Illegal possession of copyrighted materials is illegal possession of copyrighted materials. Period. The Housewife has committed a crime, just as the guy who sells burned copies has. Downloading/possession of copyrighted materials is one part of the copyright protection. Unauthorized distributing or copyrighted is another part of it. But they are both extensions of the same law that is being broken.

The question of if a pirate is also a consumer depends on how wide your definition of a pirate is. The content industry leaders want to say that everyone that has ever downloaded a single thing in their lives is a dirty, stinking pirate, but there is a good majority of people that download and also purchase legal copies too.

But again... Downloading copyrighted material from a site that is not authorized to host it is a crime. The fact that someone goes and buys a copy of said material after downloading it does NOT make the initial download crime go away.

[xnef1025]

Downloading is generally just treated as a civil offence... that can still be bad given the giant damages that can be assessed so it's of course a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the overly broad laws and the overly punitive damages aren't ridiculous and seeing the law as this black and white thing that is always correct is a bad idea. The laws regarding and the distributers that make their living from IP need to change to reflect the current realities of technology.

For example, I've heard interview with many musicans now that don't care if you download their songs as long as you come to the shows and buy some merch to support them, because they were smart and worked it out so the label doesn't get a piece of the merch... that's all them. That's changing to match the times.

[Vibranium]

Downloading is generally just treated as a civil offence... that can still be bad given the giant damages that can be assessed so it's of course a bad idea, but that doesn't mean the overly broad laws and the overly punitive damages aren't ridiculous and seeing the law as this black and white thing that is always correct is a bad idea. The laws regarding and the distributers that make their living from IP need to change to reflect the current realities of technology.

For example, I've heard interview with many musicans now that don't care if you download their songs as long as you come to the shows and buy some merch to support them, because they were smart and worked it out so the label doesn't get a piece of the merch... that's all them. That's changing to match the times.

because it is easier for a band to do that....set up a studio and benefit directly from their music

actors do not have that same luxury

[Phil Clark]

...The laws regarding and the distributers that make their living from IP need to change to reflect the current realities of technology...

But that isn't the debate going on. Under current law is what we are discussing.

And while some musicians may be enlightened as to how to get their money, that was necessitated by people who download illegally. And it may help the musicians but hurts the record companies. Record companies that (used to) employ many people.

[J. Robb]

It is subjective, but it's also a cause for why sales have dipped. As I pointed out earlier, go look up revenue for concerts/tours for the last 10 years or so. It's almost entirely dominated by artists from the past and not the present. It's obviously not a clear cut indicator but its a decent reflection on the public's opinion of modern music.

Older people have more money = nostalgia acts can charge more.

Modern music is doing fine. There's tons of great stuff out there, almost too much, it's impossible to keep up on it all.

[Kalen O.]

Most people are usually extremely moral and ethical....

....until it inconveniences them.

[Simbob4000]

But that doesn't mean jack shit.

Here is a point most people miss. Let's say you go into a store and steal something. You have committed a crime. If caught, you can be arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for doing so. If you go back and buy another of what you originally stole, you still have previously committed the crime. Buying it does not make the previous crime go away, and you are still subject to arrest and prosecution.

It is the same thing with illegally downloading a movie or song or game. You have at that moment committed a crime. Even if you go to the store and buy the movie, CD or Game, the crime has already been committed, buying the product doesn't make the crime go away.

And in the case of downloading, many people share what they downloaded. Multiplying their offense because it is illegal to distribute copyrighted material without permission.

When you commit a crime, you cannot un-commit said crime. And as such, you are still a criminal subject to punishment if caught. And the "I won't get caught" claim only holds true for so long. If you continue to commit the crime, you could eventually get caught.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Downloading something isn't anything like going into a store and stealing something, it's more like recording something off the radio or tv, both of which were things the music and film industry weren't happy about when they first popped up.

[Vibranium]

Downloading something isn't anything like going into a store and stealing something, it's more like recording something off the radio or tv, both of which were things the music and film industry weren't happy about when they first popped up.

it's exactly like that...just because you aren't physically taking something doesn't change what the action is

the way current copyright law is written, if you obtain a copy of a movie or tv show through unauthorized means, its theft

plain and simple

[Simbob4000]

it's exactly like that...just because you aren't physically taking something doesn't change what the action is

the way current copyright law is written, if you obtain a copy of a movie or tv show through unauthorized means, its theft

plain and simple

It's not anything like that, I don't give a shit how the copyright law is written, it isn't anything like physically taking a real physical thing, just like taping some movie off HBO wasn't like going into a f.y.e. and taking some VHS's.

[Vibranium]

It's not anything like that, I don't give a shit how the copyright law is written, it isn't anything like physically taking a real physical thing, just like taping some movie off HBO wasn't like going into a f.y.e. and taking some VHS's.

then you are missing the point of this entire conversation