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  1. #121
    Senior Member SephirothDZX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Clark View Post
    But very few other offenses carry such fervent disregard for the moral and legal ramifications as piracy. Actually, disregard isn't the proper term. Because people who pirate feel entitled to do so. As if it is their right to pirate copyrighted material. That arrogance is beyond description. And those who do it defend their "rights" to the bitter end, virtually never showing any remorse even when caught in the act.

    At least other criminals who know they are breaking the law generally show some level of remorse when caught.
    Some of the excuses I hear are pretty entertaining in the sense that they're laughably bad.

    For pirating video games a frequent excuse I hear is "I'd buy these games but I can't afford them". You know what you do if there's a hobby you can't financially participate in? You don't participate in that hobby. I'd like to golf seven days a week but I don't think I could maintain doing that, but you dont see me sneaking out onto a golf course for a quick 9 holes.
    Eh, Comics is a pretty cool guy...

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Clark View Post
    Thank you. Both of you. At least I am not alone in my thinking. Maybe if the people who pirate stuff were creative individuals (writers, artists, photographers, etc...) or knew creatives, they too would finally GET it and stop downloading illegally.
    Sort of reminds me of how people still love to shop at Wal-mart, even though employees are vastly underpaid and treated poorly. People still don't get how supporting Wal-mart is hurting the economy further down the road. Watch 'Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price".

    Or how people still like to purchase products where children make them in sweat shops for low wages and poor working conditions.

    I guess any situation where people can save a few bucks at the expense of others.

  3. #123
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SephirothDZX View Post
    Some of the excuses I hear are pretty entertaining in the sense that they're laughably bad.

    For pirating video games a frequent excuse I hear is "I'd buy these games but I can't afford them". You know what you do if there's a hobby you can't financially participate in? You don't participate in that hobby. I'd like to golf seven days a week but I don't think I could maintain doing that, but you dont see me sneaking out onto a golf course for a quick 9 holes.
    While someone else will.

  4. #124
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Look into it all you want. The libraries have been allowing this since the technology came onto the home market. There's no way the record industry doesn't know this. It's obviously not enough of an issue, because the libraries cannot fend off a lawsuit. Same with books. There's nothing stopping you from scanning it in your scanner to your hard drive at home.
    I'm not denying that the libraries allow it. My point was that their allowance of this practice doesn't make it any less piracy.

    What is done with the CD after it's purchased is up to the owner of the CD, so long as they don't make a profit off of it. It was that way with cassette tapes.
    That's not true at all, at least not in the way you're describing it. There's a difference between doing something with the CD and doing something with the intellectual property that the CD contains:

    1 - I purchased a CD. It's mine now. Six months later, I don't want it anymore. I can give it away. I can break it. I can even sell it for more than I paid for it. It's mine to do with what I please.

    2 - I purchased a CD. It's mine now. I want my friends to have it to. So I burn 50 copies and give them out at school. It's mine to do with what I please, right?

    Based on what you're saying, I could legally give away those 50 copies - hell, I could stand on the street corner and give out a thousand - as long as I don't make a profit, but that's absolutely not true.

    True and people will still find ways around that as well.
    I'm sure they will, people are always going to find a way to break laws.

    Bingo. Want to watch porn without paying, go to the internet. Want illegally downloaded movies, go to the internet. Play video games, go to the internet.
    You can also use the internet to legitimately support those industries, and you can do it for dirt cheap. For $10 a month, I have an Rdio subscription, which allows me to listen to pretty much every major music release on the day it comes out. It's not a cure for piracy, by any means, because artists see very little income from these channels, but it's something.

    People who keep claiming that companies need to catch up to the digital age clearly aren't paying attention. Sure, they don't give everything away for free, because they're businesses. But with my Netflix and Rdio accounts, I have unlimited access to almost all the music, TV shows, and movies I could want, and it's for less than $20 each month. That's less than the cost of one CD and a movie ticket. And, to be honest, both services are a lot more convenient than using torrents.
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  5. #125
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    I might need to look more into it, but I'm pretty sure that's still illegal, even if the libraries allow it. The fact that you own a CD does not give you the right to make copies of it. You can give your copy away if you want, but that is vastly different than making a copy of it.

    As for the "bought and paid for" comment, that only applies to one copy of the CD. The burned copy is not bought and paid for.
    Rebel libraries...almost as bad as activist judges...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Haven't you seen those commericials?
    If you sit at home and smoke weed, you might pick your brother up from school late.
    In all serious, I think pot should be legal but penalties for driving stoned every bit as harsh as those for driving drunk. Then again, I don't drink or get high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Clark View Post
    Thank you. Both of you. At least I am not alone in my thinking. Maybe if the people who pirate stuff were creative individuals (writers, artists, photographers, etc...) or knew creatives, they too would finally GET it and stop downloading illegally.
    Plenty of creative types are fine with it, whatever their corporate overlords say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium View Post
    Ive always maintained that....people have a myriad of reasons to illegally download and all of those reasons have nothing to do with copyright law
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Doesn't matter if it endangers people, the fact is that people know something is against the law and choose to ignore it, in favor of common sense and better judgment. And that's before they've started.
    Well, it does as people who ignore laws for reason of sense and judgement don't ignore laws that prevent endangering people unless their sense and judgement is truly warped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Clark View Post
    But very few other offenses carry such fervent disregard for the moral and legal ramifications as piracy.
    Sure they do. I think you're projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SephirothDZX View Post
    Some of the excuses I hear are pretty entertaining in the sense that they're laughably bad.

    For pirating video games a frequent excuse I hear is "I'd buy these games but I can't afford them". You know what you do if there's a hobby you can't financially participate in? You don't participate in that hobby.
    ...and when you can't afford to participate in any and your life is bleak and miserable and you're just living from paycheck to paycheck, 1 away from eviction and you hate your job and life and it just seems an endless routine of work, eat, shit, sleep, repeat and stolen cable or pirated/streaming movies/games give you a tiny bit of joy in a hopeless life...how much do you care about copyright law?
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  6. #126
    Senior Member momaw's Avatar
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    I would very much like it if in my country we had the services to view content online that there are in the US. The best we have is itunes with very limited content, prices exceeding the physical media and rental prices that come close to sale prices for ownership. I'd happily pay an online fee for content to be able to see it as it's released. I hate the fact I had to block shows I like from my news feed to avoid spoilers. These days you almost need to be a hermit if you don't want a popular show ruined for you before you see it.

    Personally I think the studios that make these popular TV shows should release their own "torrent" in full hd but with banner adds so they still get their advertising revenue. Of course it doesn't help that studios like AMC IP block non Americans so we can't so much as even watch adds for the Walking Dead. There is some really exciting work being done by the "little guys" in web based programming that some of the big players could learn from.

    Some shows get "fast tracked" to our shores and air the day after (or hours after) they aired in the US but our stations don't broadcast HD. As a result many still download and watch at the same time as it's being broadcast so they can see it in HD. Of course then there are the shows that never make it here in any format. Some of our channels have online options to catch episodes you miss but you are lucky if they are better quality than 360p.

    One thing I personally find very frustrating is if I buy a blu-ray from the US I can't redeem the Ultraviolet digital copy. There are ways around this but they are time consuming and difficult and breach the ultraviolet guidelines so your account could be cancelled if they find out you are outside the US. In other words, even when you legally purchase content, you get blocked from it. I can't blame some for obtaining a copy by other means when their legal purchase is not honoured.

    We are a global economy and marketplace now and studios don't recognise that. The sooner they do and create models that work in that context, the sooner they will collect more revenue. I know a lot of people that don't want to be pirates and as soon as content become legally available they rectify the situation. It doesn't make the initial act right, but studios need to re-evaluate their models and move into the new era. Pirating will never stop as there will always be those who don't care, but I would be very surprised if a lot of people stopped illegal downloads if legal alternatives were available, easy to access and use and priced right for what they are. We still have our locally release content priced at double US despite having had out dollar stronger than the US for years now - this is creating a lot of retail issues here as people now buy so much overseas buts another issue).

    The constant "it's illegal and you will go to hell" being brought up by some in this thread really doesn't help the situation. We need to look at why people do what they do and only then can we find solutions. I think the studios would be surprised how much consumers for the most part want them to succeed with decent online services.

  7. #127
    Member Omega Supreme's Avatar
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    People download stuff illegally because they can, because they aren't going to be caught, because they feel that the only ones who have a problem with it are some huge Disney-like companies who don't give a damn about them anyway and of course because it's freaking FREE.

    You can sing "it's bad, it's illegal, it makes Jesus cries" all day, nobody is going to change his/her ways because of you or what you think. Free, you can't beat that.

    All day we hear, read or see messages who tell us that we need things. That the society we are living in. Well, people do what they think they need and are getting things.

    But for free. (clever bastards )

  8. #128
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    Didn't congress prevent Mickey Mouse from becoming a public good multiple times?

  9. #129
    Senior Member Addams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    People download stuff illegally because they can, because they aren't going to be caught, because they feel that the only ones who have a problem with it are some huge Disney-like companies who don't give a damn about them anyway and of course because it's freaking FREE
    True. You can think about this all piracy deal as hard as you want, why, how, whatever...in the end that's the main reason why it exists and why it always will be around.

    Free is the price people love the most. Free movies, free music, free tv shows, free, free, free !! Now, people also don't mind to pay sometimes. And yes, it can be the very same people than occasionally download some stuff.

    See that's why piracy doesn't really hurt any industries, those so called pirates, those blood sucking monsters if you read some messages here are consumers too. (with a geeky side often)

    Studios and such do are getting money from them soon or later. One way or an another.

  10. #130
    Ultimate Mod! Plawsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    ...and when you can't afford to participate in any and your life is bleak and miserable and you're just living from paycheck to paycheck, 1 away from eviction and you hate your job and life and it just seems an endless routine of work, eat, shit, sleep, repeat and stolen cable or pirated/streaming movies/games give you a tiny bit of joy in a hopeless life...how much do you care about copyright law?
    What percentage of piracy do you really think is committed by those people? I'd say that most people pirating music and movies can afford $20 a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    Didn't congress prevent Mickey Mouse from becoming a public good multiple times?
    Yes. Mickey Mouse is one of the big reasons that copyright terms keep getting extended, because Disney obviously doesn't want their character in the public domain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Addams View Post
    See that's why piracy doesn't really hurt any industries, those so called pirates, those blood sucking monsters if you read some messages here are consumers too. (with a geeky side often)

    Studios and such do are getting money from them soon or later. One way or an another.
    I don't see how people can still say piracy doesn't hurt any industries. The music industry has been noticeably affected by it. Sure, a lot of the past decade's change also has to do with iTunes, iPods and smart phones, but to say that piracy doesn't have an affect is outright wrong. It might not have a big effect on major artists, because people are always going to buy their records. But I have personal friends who went from selling 5,000 albums to selling 1,000 because of filesharing. I know that's just anecdotal evidence, but that's part of the problem; there's no way to quantify piracy's effect, so people just shrug it off.
    I like Ultimate Comics. - Read them with us!

    I also buy: Captain America, Avengers, FF, New Avengers, X-Factor, among others

  11. #131
    Senior Member Addams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    The music industry has been noticeably affected by it. Sure, a lot of the past decade's change also has to do with iTunes, iPods and smart phones, but to say that piracy doesn't have an affect is outright wrong.
    Any REAL proves of that ? Numbers, something tangible ? Cause i heard that a lot this past decade but in the end the music industry sure doesn't seem to me to be in a worst shape at all.

    Nothing was more pirated than cassettes. And it was before Internet. Didn't hear that much whining about piracy back then.
    Last edited by Addams; 01-03-2013 at 07:59 AM.

  12. #132
    BANNED Phil Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Addams View Post
    See that's why piracy doesn't really hurt any industries, those so called pirates, those blood sucking monsters if you read some messages here are consumers too. (with a geeky side often)

    Studios and such do are getting money from them soon or later. One way or an another.
    This has be be the single most delusional and misguided response on this topic I have ever read. Pirates are consumers too? Really? REALLY?

    Pirates by definition are anti-consumers. They STEAL their content. They don't pay for it. And worse, they SHARE that stolen content. The only way studios get their money from pirates is if they catch them and fine them. But even then, the damage of their intellectual property being available for free is potentially worse than the fines would compensate for.

    And even worse, many pirates not only steal the content, but they make hard copies (DVDs) and SELL those, making a profit on their crime. We have all seen tables at Cons that are selling movies that are just barely out of the theaters.

    Face it... there is no upside to piracy for the studios. Stealing is stealing. Period.

  13. #133
    Senior Member Addams's Avatar
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    Pirates are consumers too? Really? REALLY?
    Oh yes, really.

  14. #134
    Senior Member SephirothDZX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Addams View Post
    Nothing was more pirated than cassettes. And it was before Internet. Didn't hear that much whining about piracy back then.
    There was a lot of bruohaha back when VHS recording sets were new, people said that would cripple video sales.
    Eh, Comics is a pretty cool guy...

  15. #135
    BANNED Phil Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plawsky View Post
    I don't see how people can still say piracy doesn't hurt any industries. The music industry has been noticeably affected by it. Sure, a lot of the past decade's change also has to do with iTunes, iPods and smart phones, but to say that piracy doesn't have an affect is outright wrong. It might not have a big effect on major artists, because people are always going to buy their records. But I have personal friends who went from selling 5,000 albums to selling 1,000 because of filesharing. I know that's just anecdotal evidence, but that's part of the problem; there's no way to quantify piracy's effect, so people just shrug it off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addams View Post
    Any REAL proves of that ? Numbers, something tangible ? Cause i heard that a lot this past decade but in the end the music industry sure doesn't seem to me to be in a worst shape at all.
    So you are just going to ignore his comments about reduced albums sales and that becuase it is hard to quantify, people just shrug it off? You are doing exactly what he said people do.

    Get your head out of the sand (or other dark place it is located) and open your mind to the idea that just because it is hard to quantify exact numbers (which is what you seem to be wanting) doesn't mean that it isn't having an adverse affect on the industry.

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