Thread Drift: The Ending of Amazing Spider-Man #700 (Spoilers)

[jsg2295]

But why should Peter go back to the same boring self sacrificing trope? After being in league with his new mentor, Doc Ock, maybe some of Ocks viciousness will rub off on him? We've had Peter lecturing Hope and Alpha in recent times about the benefits of the Paker maxim. Maybe it's time for another maxim to come into play?

If I wanted vindictiveness and viciousness I would read the punisher or the many other comics out there that entertain that type of forum.

[Tendrin]

Spock with redemption...I just dont see it.

Well, we just might. Understand that Ock is going to have to deal with a lot of things that are going to change who he is. He's been given a whole lifetime of new memories to sift through and you can already see in thee dialogue that the lines between Peter Parker and Doctor Octopus are a little blurred already. After all, he didn't JUST get the memories. He also got to relive them as PEter's life flashed in front of his eyes. That's enough to change anyone, really, even a douche like Otto. We already saw a glimpse of the potential that was inside of Ock that wasn't unleashed before when he struck Scorpion in defense of that dear, sweet old lady.

Whether he redeems himself or not is a matter of the arc. We might see Otto come to the cusp of it, but be unable to make the self-sacrifice necessary to truly achieve it. To redeem himself, Otto must confront, and accept, his own death, instead of the coward he confronted it as before.

So it's certainly possible. He's pretending to be someone else and anyone who's done undercover work will tell you that who they pretend to be is sometimes hard to escape. In this case, pretending to be a better man might result in Otto becoming one. It's a trope that's been explored in Thunderbolts, of course, but this is pretty different than what has gone before in other villain redemption arcs and it has the potential for some great internal conflict between 'Otto' and 'Parker' that delivers some great insight into what made both of them tick, and what made them enemies.

[The Angry Comic Book Critic]

Yeah isn't this the truth about all popular Super hero deaths?

[jackolover]

What was the old saying? "The only ones who stay dead are Uncle Ben, Jason Todd, and Bucky." We're now at 2/3 brought back, and even re-killed.

Is Bucky now more vulnerable after his death and re-healthing back to life, during Fear Itself? I wonder why Bucky stays out of the action besides the fact he wants to be anonymous, so James may have even more reason to stay behind the scenes and just use his sniping skills.

[Sonofspam]

What I'm certain of is that the book will launch strong...but that will be dismissed on message boards for varied reasons (too many covers, a Number one, and my favorite: "people just want to watch a train wreck" as if anyone ever paid four dollars for a comic they hated).

Then the normal attrition will kick in as it does on all books and that will be the sure sign to many here that everything about the book is failing and cries of, "Sales have never been this low!!!" will cover the air. "I'll wait for these books in DOLLAR BIN!!" will be a favorite. There will be some hack jobbed "Chart" to "prove" this "point".

Then we'll announce a big long-planned Spidey story for next summer and the same players will call it a "desperate move" by a "flailing Marvel" even though we do it every year. Get ready to take a drink every time you hear "House of NO Ideas" or some variation.

Also we'll hear from a number of people who think it's all stupid becasue it's all going to go back the way it was anyway. Marvel has no guts like they USED to back in 198-whenever, don't ya know!

I will inevitably refer to someone here as "clowns", childish" or "an over-dramatic pearl-clutcher".

Sales will level out at a decent number and then we'll hear from hundreds of people who have dropped all Marvels after 60 YEARS!...However they still seem to know every story beat and minutiae. They will claim to keep up only via message boards and stealing reads in their local comic shop. Also they will all have a "friend" that they spoke to about the current Spidey storyline and those friends all hated it, proving that Marvel is getting NO NEW READERS!

Whatever story is going on will be compared unfavorably to "the Clone Saga" ad nauseum.

Also I will hear drones of how we print no negative letters in the book regardless of the many examples that prove otherwise. Positive feedback will be dismissed as either Marvel shills or letters I wrote myself (because THAT'S a good use of my time).

Around that time, someone will come here who just so happens to be an expert in Public Relations and proceed to lecture me about how I need to behave on message boards because --despite all the evidence to the contrary --fans only like to be agreed with and have their often oppositional storytelling instincts adhered to. I will be warned that the posts here may cost me my job. MY JOB!!!

I will then be reprimanded for not adhering to some vague code of "professionalism" that some anonymous person's job demands they adhere to. An anonymous guy pretending to work at a comic store will have a story about how he has stopped ordering the book....which must be happening across the country.

Plus I will hear how many of you hate all editorially driven comics, but I should also tell Slott and Yost exactly what to write.

Oh, and we hate Heroes as well. Also "humanity" and "America". And don't forget we are insensitive to all rape victims.

And then someone will refer to me as "Wack-Off".

So there's the next few months. Sorry I didn't add Spoiler Space.

SW

Are all New Yorkers this cynical?

[stephen wacker]

What else do they have? Those elusive new readers? What reason would a, say… 12 years old kid be attracted to an adjective like “Superior” Spider-Man? Superior to what? I should be telling my kid that Spider-Man is going to be ok, right? Do you think Stephen Wacker and Dan Slott went and made a whole new Spider-Man ongoing, featuring Otto Octavius as Spider-Man for new readers? Who, from the early 1960’s, don’t even know how much of a shock that is and wouldn’t even bother to be upset about it? Really?

According to today's e-mail (which was very heavy) 22 kids under the age of 13 picked up 700 and plan to pick up Superior.

I'll take an excited 12 year old reader over an always cranky and too "smart" for comics 40-year old reader any day.

SW

[jsg2295]

According to today's e-mail (which was very heavy) 22 kids under the age of 13 picked up 700 and plan to pick up Superior.

I'll take an excited 12 year old reader over an always cranky and too "smart" for comics 40-year old reader any day.

SW

Too big of an opening ....

[FriendRoss]

im very excited for heros for hire

[Neutrino]

Bah, forget it. Rage, rage, rage, etc.

[ParkerLuck]

According to today's e-mail (which was very heavy) 22 kids under the age of 13 picked up 700 and plan to pick up Superior.

I'll take an excited 12 year old reader over an always cranky and too "smart" for comics 40-year old reader any day.

SW

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Wacker, my point is that comic books are for comic book readers, current and future, that's all. BTW, of course I did not cheer for the ending in ASM #700, but I get that it's a story you guys are telling (and in my opinion, it's a great story), it has nothing to do with aggravating readers (not in a personal way). Only the appeal of this “Dying Wish” arc is clearly directed at current readers, who get the importance of it. Also, assuming you are not publishing for your current readers is illogical. I have no doubt that new readers, who decide to start following Spider-Man because of your work on ASM #700 and Superior (congrats on the e-mails), will want to know about those 50 years of stories about Octavius and Peter Parker. And you get a new ongoing with potential for great stories. And a good jumping point. Old readers, like me, will of course conjecture on the following plots and get our own ideas about what is what… It’s the nature of comics, these are open stories, it’s an open work. That’s what’s cool about comics and you (your whole team) are doing a great job at this book.

[ASM78]

Peter Parker IS Spider-man. There I said it....I won't call Slott a hack writer, or even poke fun at Wacker.
I have enjoyed most of Slott's run and I can appreciate the fact he is trying to open the gate for new story ideas and characters. But dammit Peter Parker IS my Spider-man.
I have been collecting Spider-man for 38 years, I escaped into another world with Peter Parker. One that I loved and went back to time and time again. He is the definitive super-hero....to have Doc Ock be Spider-man is a slap in the face.
To me it seems the bad guy won....
I miss Peter Parker already.
I miss Spider-man
Peace

[Spider-Frog]

What??? No Ben Reilly in Heaven? Something strange is going on!

[DV1Band]

I'm disappointed in the whole thing, but I realize that there are other comics to catch up on. I'm still a Marvel fan, just not a Spider-Man fan for the time being...

[Piecar]

We're supposed to all be okay with this outcome moving forward into MARVEL NOW? Doc Ock has killed Peter Parker, while in Ock's body. He's a puppet master using Parker's body. He's a murderous supervillain who Parker tried to imbue, in his final moments, with some of Peter's own moral code....So great, new Spidey?

Frankly, that sucks. That is truly one of the crappiest ways I can think of to move on. Worse, it's sort of already been done when Kraven 'killed' Spidey and took over as Spiderman.

I have no problem with a character dying. I think it's a good thing and a worthy story and idea. These guys risk their lives, and sooner or later it's going to bite them. But dying in a decrepit old body and having your body still leaping around is crap. I won't enjoy a book that has Doc Ock as SPiderman. I just won't. This is a horrible insult to the character and a terrible idea.

[Piecar]

I agree with you completely. As a short series, like the Kraven series (with almost the same idea) would be okay. But if they think they'll keep Doc Ock in Pete's body for an actual ongoing book...No Way, man.