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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
    So you are honestly saying that Steve Rodgers has as much popularity as Peter Parker?
    He's saying - and giving actual examples to the fact - that the tone of the outrage towards Steve Rogers' death was the same as it is now towards Peter Parker's death. The same accusations of gimmicky writing, the same accusations that Marvel doesn't care about its fans or its characters, the same claims from fans that they're done with comics (or at least with Marvel) for good. It's all the same. And in the case of The Death of Cap, despite all the fan rancor it insprired ahead of time it turned out to be arguably - if not definitively - the greatest modern day Cap story.

  2. #287
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg2295 View Post
    Haha ...gotcha....Captain America is popular as PETER PARKER...i didnt write anything about Spidey....i have crushed you in the crux of my logic
    But you said...DAMN YOU!

  3. #288
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    He's saying - and giving actual examples to the fact - that the tone of the outrage towards Steve Rogers' death was the same as it is now towards Peter Parker's death. The same accusations of gimmicky writing, the same accusations that Marvel doesn't care about its fans or its characters, the same claims from fans that they're done with comics (or at least with Marvel) for good. It's all the same. And in the case of The Death of Cap, despite all the fan rancor it insprired ahead of time it turned out to be arguably - if not definitively - the greatest modern day Cap story.
    I didn't really come across as many people who were against his death as I've seen against Peter's, and people are far more trusting of Bru's writing I've seen.

    But there is a major difference here; Cap's "death" was genuinely told well, and didn't leave a suddenly reformed villain and megalomaniac using his alter ego. In his skin. Pretending to be him.

    Slott's was told well, until the end imho, and you know, it leaving that aforementioned suddenly reformed megalomaniac as Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

    .

  4. #289
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    I didn't really come across as many people who were against his death as I've seen against Peter's, and people are far more trusting of Bru's writing I've seen.

    But there is a major difference here; Cap's "death" was genuinely told well, and didn't leave a suddenly reformed villain and megalomaniac using his alter ego. In his skin. Pretending to be him.

    Slott's was told well, until the end imho, and you know, it leaving that aforementioned suddenly reformed megalomaniac as Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

    .
    Read the whole thread, there's plenty of outrage.

    As for the last part, maybe he wasn't wearing his skin, but Cap's replacement was a brainwashed Soviet assassin who was working for the Red Skull not but a few months prior.

    So yeah, pretty close, actually.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    I didn't really come across as many people who were against his death as I've seen against Peter's, and people are far more trusting of Bru's writing I've seen.

    But there is a major difference here; Cap's "death" was genuinely told well, and didn't leave a suddenly reformed villain and megalomaniac using his alter ego. In his skin. Pretending to be him.

    Slott's was told well, until the end imho, and you know, it leaving that aforementioned suddenly reformed megalomaniac as Peter Parker/Spider-Man.

    .
    I think Slott's story was equally well-told and, really, in this case it's all going to be about the follow-up.

  6. #291
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    Remember when John Walker replaced Cap. I wonder what the fan outcry would have been then. Probably to a fever pitch knowing what I know today. (Sorry no Cap drug abuse references this time).
    But I have to ask all the marks out there... is this really that serious. I've thumbed through this thread and I've seen page after page of foolishness, accusations that the creators don't care about the characters and then some.

    Let's insert logic here. Do we really think Marvel is trying to destroy one of their leading franchises? Do we think Dan Slott has no concept of the character? The same Slott that was beloved just a few issues ago? He's trying something new.

    Now to the people who really don't care for it and say... hey I'm not into it...this post ain't for you. But for the people who are just going insane and having a debate over this - being true marks to the business, you're just bolstering what you don't like. You're proving to Marvel that they need to continue doing these kinds of stories because of your reactions. Your reactions equal sales and product awareness.

    Let me put it this way to the marks who just don't get it. If you hated this story that much, then the best thing for you to have done was not say anything. I guarantee you, if no one had said anything about this storyline, if the boards were clean and no spoilers came up because there was no interest.... this storyline would have been undone in record time.
    Check out the O.A.W. Report at www.majinoaw.blogspot.com. You want to see why I say the things I do or understand what's in my head... this is the place to go.

  7. #292
    Future XPOTM Majinoaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    Read the whole thread, there's plenty of outrage.

    As for the last part, maybe he wasn't wearing his skin, but Cap's replacement was a brainwashed Soviet assassin who was working for the Red Skull not but a few months prior.

    So yeah, pretty close, actually.
    You act like Cap was a great hero to start with. Don't forget about his drug use and how he brutalized some of his friends during one of his moments being strung out. Sorry I tried to resist speaking on this subject... but I can't.
    Check out the O.A.W. Report at www.majinoaw.blogspot.com. You want to see why I say the things I do or understand what's in my head... this is the place to go.

  8. #293
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majinoaw View Post
    Remember when John Walker replaced Cap. I wonder what the fan outcry would have been then. Probably to a fever pitch knowing what I know today. (Sorry no Cap drug abuse references this time).
    One of the more amusing reactions I've seen to this whole kerfuffle was Gerry Conway pondering what kind of Hell he would've gone through if Twitter existed back in 1973 when he wrote the Night Gwen Stacy Died.

  9. #294
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    Read the whole thread, there's plenty of outrage.

    As for the last part, maybe he wasn't wearing his skin, but Cap's replacement was a brainwashed Soviet assassin who was working for the Red Skull not but a few months prior.

    So yeah, pretty close, actually.

    lol While I was writing this, I thought of that too XD

    But it's a bit different. It's not like Bucky was in control of his actions then. So it's not that close when thought of that way. He's also not a megalomaniac that almost genocide'd the world.

    Oh, and the fact still remains, those who were against Steve's "death" were minimal compared to Peter's. It's just a simple matter of volume is all I'm saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    I think Slott's story was equally well-told and, really, in this case it's all going to be about the follow-up.
    For the most part I agree. Dan did a good job overall. But his closing of Peter's life as well as them using the celebratory anniversary and 700th issue with Peter being destroyed mentally and physically with his friends and family cheering on his defeat clueless to what's really going on, as his murderer, who mind you just a few issues back was about to eradicate all life on earth, triumphed over him in every way possible, only to suddenly have a change of morals and heart at the last possible second through some unexplained mind-melt from Peter, really tarnished the ending.

    I even saw Wacker saying he wished the rushed ending could've been addressed in some topic here the other day. He did mention that it was mostly out of Dan and Ramos' hands though, and I understand that, but still.

  10. #295
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majinoaw View Post
    You act like Cap was a great hero to start with. Don't forget about his drug use and how he brutalized some of his friends during one of his moments being strung out. Sorry I tried to resist speaking on this subject... but I can't.
    It's not a knock on Bucky, it's a knock on the implication that Octavius can't conceivably replace Peter because he was a bad guy.

    Bad guys get redemption arcs all the time.

  11. #296
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    It's not a knock on Bucky, it's a knock on the implication that Octavius can't conceivably replace Peter because he was a bad guy.

    Bad guys get redemption arcs all the time.
    Again, completely different sets of circumstances. It's not the same.

    Bucky didn't swap bodies and kill off Steve to become who he became for instance.

    And you know, it's kinda hard to accept a redemption of a character when they just killed the titular hero and only through a miracle on the heroes end had a change of heart.

  12. #297
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    For the most part I agree. Dan did a good job overall. But his closing of Peter's life as well as them using the celebratory anniversary and 700th issue with Peter being destroyed mentally and physically with his friends and family cheering on his defeat clueless to what's really going on, as his murderer, who mind you just a few issues back was about to eradicate all life on earth, triumphed over him in every way possible, only to suddenly have a change of morals and heart at the last possible second through some unexplained mind-melt from Peter, really tarnished the ending.
    The memory dump seemed a bit cramped, but otherwise, I don't see an issue. The most well liked Star Wars film overall ends with one main character getting maimed, another taken by a bounty hunter and the rebellion scattered after the Imperials destroyed their base. Ongoing storytelling sometimes gets to a dark point.

    Hell, what is probably the most well known and definitive Iron Man story ever involves him succumbing to alcoholism, being replaced as Iron Man, going bankrupt and winding up homeless.

  13. #298
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    The memory dump seemed a bit cramped, but otherwise, I don't see an issue. The most well liked Star Wars film overall ends with one main character getting maimed, another taken by a bounty hunter and the rebellion scattered after the Imperials destroyed their base. Ongoing storytelling sometimes gets to a dark point.

    Hell, what is probably the most well known and definitive Iron Man story ever involves him succumbing to alcoholism, being replaced as Iron Man, going bankrupt and winding up homeless.
    That's because good is dumb.
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  14. #299
    Junior Member TheOther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundrave View Post
    So you're saying that the "Superior Spider-Man" series (which, mind you, has not been released yet) could be entertaining and superbly written, but that you are nonetheless boycotting it due to what you perceive is the unethical treatment of a fictional character?
    No. I said I read Avenging #15.1. That was a look at the character that will be used in the Superior Spider-Man series. I'm going to be reading Superior Spider-Man and see if it is any good. I wasn't impressed with Avenging #15.1, though that could've been because Yost wrote it and not Slott. If nothing is different than what I read yesterday, I'll get my subscription changed to something else.

  15. #300
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    The memory dump seemed a bit cramped, but otherwise, I don't see an issue. The most well liked Star Wars film overall ends with one main character getting maimed, another taken by a bounty hunter and the rebellion scattered after the Imperials destroyed their base. Ongoing storytelling sometimes gets to a dark point.

    Hell, what is probably the most well known and definitive Iron Man story ever involves him succumbing to alcoholism, being replaced as Iron Man, going bankrupt and winding up homeless.
    True, and your statement here is eerily reminiscent to a poster on another board I frequent who oddly enough used the Empire Strikes Back as a parable to this lol

    And reading that from him reminded me that I do love Slott, and overall trust him, though I'm displeased with this current arc's ending, but that this is simply part two of his trilogy, and I should wait for the return of the Jedi...Er, Spider-Man. >_>

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