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  1. #76
    Veteran Member Ari Gold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    This is the one thing that could instantly cause me to stop buying the title.
    Curious. Will you actually stop buying the title if that happens, or really, really consider not buying the title if that happens?

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0bsessions View Post
    I'm not concerned with what tainted MJ's character (I don't see anything in the Paper Doll arc that tainted her character), I'm concerned with the future implications of Octavius using willful deception to have sex with someone. That is, by lawful definition in many places, rape. That's a genie that damn near impossible to put back in the bottle short of a full fledged reboot. That's the kind of permanent situation you don't just walk away from without addressing the horrifying nature of the act.
    To each their own. The Paper Dowl thing I was referring to was the last page of the first issue of that story where MJ appears, Faust book in hand in a come hither pose with another man. Since OMIT had yet to happen the panel just screamed out to me 'Yeah, MJ's aware of the OMD deal but she'sstill f###### someone else. Hate her Spidey fans and accept our awesome single looks at porn eternally young Pete already!'. Clearly people can see taht scene differently but it's what I got out of it. But no, I don't like the possibility of suggestable rape or what yet more damage it'll do to MJ anytime soon.

  3. #78
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    2. What quality lesson are we as fans of Peter and his legacy supposed to take from this? That the bad guy wins this time? It's interesting for sure, but hardly revolutionary, and it still boils down to Peter deserving a much better sendoff than what he got. Hell, then what we as fans and followers of Slott and Marvel, who stuck with this book even beyond OMD and the Clone Saga got. The comparison to what Bendis masterfully did in USM rings true because there, Peter went out with a bang, and in the 616 he went out with a whimper. I've tried to get around it and I just can't.
    The quality lesson that you're supposed to take is that superior morals will win over ill-intentioned people. More than strength, or smarts, it's the goodness of your spirit that is the ultimate changer. It doesn't just check evil, it beats it by making it disappear. It's apparently a hard concept to swallow for a culture that wallows in innate good vs innate evil narratives. But it's a good lesson.

  4. #79
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    Just looking through responses here but a quick question; does Steve Wacker even respond to any poster unless they are saying something negative or not praising his book?

    There are some genuinely great posts here that beg discussion, and I never see him debate or discuss with those sort of posters. Only with those who don't praise his book.
    In my experience, he generally only tends to leave quick responses, rarely ever anything particularly lengthy.. That said, even though they're often times quick, he tends to respond to reasoned posts with a reasoned response. His commenting history is readily available to you.

  5. #80

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    meh..........
    Last edited by BarryAllen5K; 12-27-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  6. #81

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    Brevoort: "If these characters are frozen in amber they lose their life. They lose their edge."

    I understood this to be the exact point of OMD--to forever freeze Peter in young-swinging-single-spidey amber.

    Of course, that's more or less shattered now. It's just another example of how these type of articles and interviews are just fluff designed to promote the new status quo and act like it's the best shit ever--no matter how good, bad, necessary, idiotic, or hypocritical the story is.

  7. #82
    Veteran Member Ari Gold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number_5 View Post
    Brevoort: "If these characters are frozen in amber they lose their life. They lose their edge."

    I understood this to be the exact point of OMD--to forever freeze Peter in young-swinging-single-spidey amber.
    Perfect juxtaposition.

  8. #83
    Kind of a DB 0bsessions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylun123 View Post
    Curious. Will you actually stop buying the title if that happens, or really, really consider not buying the title if that happens?
    Just outright stop on principle. I simply could not bring myself to support a Spider-Man comic starring a rapist. I'm hesitant to even saying it's just that I won't even read something starring a rapist, frankly (I watched all but the last season of Rescue Me and Tommy Gavin essentially committed rape at least once when you get down to it), but I won't read an All Ages comic featuring a rapist in the lead role.

  9. #84
    Veteran Member Leocomix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number_5 View Post
    Brevoort: "If these characters are frozen in amber they lose their life. They lose their edge."

    I understood this to be the exact point of OMD--to forever freeze Peter in young-swinging-single-spidey amber.

    Of course, that's more or less shattered now. It's just another example of how these type of articles and interviews are just fluff designed to promote the new status quo and act like it's the best shit ever--no matter how good, bad, necessary, idiotic, or hypocritical the story is.
    So you misunderstood the point of OMD. He had been frozen in the marriage-amber for 20 years.

  10. #85
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leocomix View Post
    The quality lesson that you're supposed to take is that superior morals will win over ill-intentioned people. More than strength, or smarts, it's the goodness of your spirit that is the ultimate changer. It doesn't just check evil, it beats it by making it disappear. It's apparently a hard concept to swallow for a culture that wallows in innate good vs innate evil narratives. But it's a good lesson.
    What the hell does this even mean in the context of my overall question? If we're to go by this statement of yours, then Doc Ock and his ill-intent triumphed over Peter's superior morals.

    .

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leocomix View Post
    So you misunderstood the point of OMD. He had been frozen in the marriage-amber for 20 years.
    To which the prefered solution was to freeze him in the older, single for just as long 'Brand New Day' Amber. Huh. Smart.

  12. #87

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    Actually, the marriage was developing and Mary Jane got pregnant and Peter Parker quit being Spider-Man to raise a family and left someone else in a Peter Parker body to be Spider Man (Ben Reilly) which upset fans more than this(as mentioned in the article) , not knowing what to do Marvel has been back pedaling ever since.

  13. #88
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pblimp360 View Post
    Just looking through responses here but a quick question; does Steve Wacker even respond to any poster unless they are saying something negative or not praising his book?

    There are some genuinely great posts here that beg discussion, and I never see him debate or discuss with those sort of posters. Only with those who don't praise his book.
    Yeah, he has.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
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  14. #89
    Man of Marvel Raphael Edwards's Avatar
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    I'm just saying, every time I've seen his posts, they are of the trolling nature. I don't frequent this board enough to see every post of his though, but still, the fact still remains that there are some great posts that he could spend his limited time commenting on, rather than those who say something negative.

  15. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Cosmic View Post
    No, we can't. I'm not going to salute or congratulate someone for crapping on good storytelling and the history and legacy of a character for the sake of "being edgy" or KEWLL!11"

    I've read the issue (WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT, MIND YOU) and it's utter garbage. Is the premise that bad? No, and it could be a great storyline in the right context. But cancelling ASM and making this the status quo (even if it's not going to be permanent) is the kind of shitty tabloid stuff Marvel's been doing for years now.

    The guys in this interview claim you can't keep telling the story of Peter Parker learning about power and responsibility. Really? Did I miss the arc where Peter Parker evolved into a perfect human, incapable of making mistakes?

    The problem lies with the complete vacuum of talent in the Spider-Man office, esp. Slott and Wacker. If they cared about the character and telling good stories, they'd have put Mark Waid on the title. I use him as an example because Waid didn't turn do anything outrageous or sensational to bring success to Dardevil. He could have done something nonsensical and outrageous with DD, like turning Matt Murdock into a transvestite murderer or making the character "DareDEVIL" by bonding Murdock's soul with a real demon that switches place with Murdock when he taps his cane on the ground.

    Instead, Waid used these rare things in comics today, called characterization, respect for a character's legacy, and finding new stories to tell within the classic unities of a timeless character to create top-selling stories people want to read.

    Marvel should have tossed Slott off Spider-Man just like they did with the other creators and their books. Waid could have kept DD and taken on ASM. Instead, we have more shitty stories being told with Spider-Man, who is now considered more of a target for pathetic stunt storytelling than Superman used to be. The big difference is that the worst Superman stunt storylines (Superman Blue, Dominus arc) didn't fundamentally change the character into an anemic version of itself. Superman was till Superman, though in stories and situations that he hadn't been in before.

    THAT'S called good storytelling. Too bad Slott and Wacker know nothing about how that works.
    I don't know how to tell you this but Wacker is the editor of Daredevil.

    And the stories Wait are writing are a mile away from the stuff Miller, Smith, Mack, Bendis, Brubaker and Diggle were writing. In fact a major plot point is that Matt is acting differently than he was before.
    "Dan Slott was also unbelievably helpful during this period as he helped me formulate some of the ideas that eventually be used in "OMIT." Dan is a champ and an idea machine" - Joey Q

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