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  1. #1
    Senior Member Don-Jack's Avatar
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    Default Justice League #15 Discussion [SPOILERS]

    Great issue. Superman and Wonder Woman work together. SHE FLIES. And the lasso transformation is back (inconsistent with the solo book).

    Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Seant's Avatar
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    What's she going to do with her earrings and glasses?

  3. #3
    Senior Member wagthedog's Avatar
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    How does she fly? Is she hovering, or actually flying Superman style in the panels?

  4. #4
    Senior Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Real flight, as in a streak of light across the sky, almost exactly like Supes.

  5. #5
    Needs more lesbian RandomFalls's Avatar
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    Why would we ever want consistency between books?

    It's actually a pretty good issue. The characterisation still completely puts me off, but the art and action nearly make up for it. Flip over to Aquaman 15 and it's still good to see that Diana's swinging her sword around and threatning to cut folks up.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zagreus's Avatar
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    It would be nice if at least the powers and abilities, which are core to any superhero, are consistant. But the way I'm reading things here is that Johns seems to want to call the shots with WW, rather than let Azz do it, although Azz seems to have a much better take. I don't think Azz and Johns are communicating at all.

  7. #7
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    I don't get the lasso transformation. I mean, I understand that it's existed before and how it worked then, and how it's supposed to work theoretically, but how did this Wonder Woman know to do it if she'd never done something like that before?

    Also, where did she get the dress she wore to the date? Did Superman have the whole get up picked out for her for the opportune moment as far back as after their first kiss? Because they went from that kiss on the Lincoln Memorial, to fighting Cheetah, to Smallville, to the date with what seemed like not a lot of time passing or progression in their relationship beyond initial awkwardness from the impromptu kiss.

    It's strange to see the familiar "This is a job for Superman!" line transformed into "This is a job for us!" accompanied by matching disguises and their removal. It emphasized Superman and Wonder Woman's increasing sameness and, given its occurrence after Teamwork, Hope, and Secret Identity school with Mr. Kent, it felt like a sidekick moment with Superman and Wonder Woman as Batman and Robin. Not sure how I feel about that, because it's only a snippet and I don't want to judge too soon.

  8. #8
    yes...THE Wonderman. RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Hermes granted her the power of flight via the feather, so she can fly now, right? The lasso trick might just be something a girl with a magic lasso knows how to do?
    Are you sure that "by the grace of god" you survived? Maybe god was trying to GET you and missed??!!??
    Twitter: Ryan Klaus @RealWonderman

  9. #9
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Hermes granted her the power of flight via the feather, so she can fly now, right? The lasso trick might just be something a girl with a magic lasso knows how to do?
    Lol. That's funny!

    I can't wait to read it. The lasso-trans is retro. It should NOT be working in nu52. I think it was a tongue-in-cheek moment. U won't see that in her own mag.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Don-Jack's Avatar
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    It's funny because when there was trouble coming, I already started to wonder how she would turn into WW. Then the spin came to my mind, "but of course it will not be that". Then there was this.
    Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.

  11. #11
    The Mad Artist RMAN63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don-Jack View Post
    It's funny because when there was trouble coming, I already started to wonder how she would turn into WW. Then the spin came to my mind, "but of course it will not be that". Then there was this.
    Personally speaking, I prefer this method (lasso) to spinning like Lynda Carter. I always found the "costume under clothes" idea to be a bit boring for my tastes. This is a way to expedite the change if she's wearing civilian clothes.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Don-Jack's Avatar
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    I like the costume under clothes as long as she wears cool clothes and the tiara like on #5 and #11
    Sexism: men are from Ares, women are from Aphrodite.

  13. #13
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don-Jack View Post
    It's funny because when there was trouble coming, I already started to wonder how she would turn into WW. Then the spin came to my mind, "but of course it will not be that". Then there was this.
    I get that you're able to anticipate the possibility of the lasso being used in this particular way, but how could this New 52 Wonder Woman have known to do this? I've not read every Wonder Woman book of the relaunch, so was there a moment that illustrated Diana knew her lasso could be used for such a purpose? In other words, how does Wonder Woman using the lasso to change clothes make in-story sense?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
    I don't get the lasso transformation. I mean, I understand that it's existed before and how it worked then, and how it's supposed to work theoretically, but how did this Wonder Woman know to do it if she'd never done something like that before?
    How do we know she's never done it before? She says she's never taken a break this way before, but that doesn't mean that she's never worn a disguise while on a mission, or that she's never used the lasso just to change clothes (because after all, you don't need to have a secret ID to have occasion to change your clothes. While we haven't seen her do it in her own book, I don't think we've seen anything that proves she can't do it. And if it's basically an Easter egg, how much in-story sense does it really need to make?

    Also, where did she get the dress she wore to the date
    ?

    Maybe she stopped at a Macy's somewhere between Smallville and Metropolis? Or she transported up to get her spare dress out of a locker in the Watchtower? Or maybe the lasso brought it out of her real or virtual wardrobe? Usually people supply their own clothes for dates. Without an indication that Superman provided her dress, I think it makes sense to assume that she got it for herself.

    It's strange to see the familiar "This is a job for Superman!" line transformed into "This is a job for us!" accompanied by matching disguises and their removal. It emphasized Superman and Wonder Woman's increasing sameness and, given its occurrence after Teamwork, Hope, and Secret Identity school with Mr. Kent, it felt like a sidekick moment with Superman and Wonder Woman as Batman and Robin.
    Except he doesn't say "This looks like a job for Superman and Wonder Woman"; he simply says "us," which keeps them on terms of equality (as they should be). And she contributes about as much as he does to the effort; Superman and Wonder Woman working as equals to lift an aircraft carrier is a little different from Robin watching while Batman pulls the day-saving secret weapon out of his utility belt.

    And look again at JL 12, by the way. Right after Superman explains his reasons for keeping
    Last edited by slvn; 12-26-2012 at 03:14 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    How do we know she's never done it before? She says she's never taken a break this way before, but that doesn't mean that she's never worn a disguise while on a mission, or that she's never used the lasso just to change clothes (because after all, you don't need to have a secret ID to have occasion to change your clothes.
    I wouldn't know since no one has bothered to share this sort of information about Diana. I'd rather not make assumptions. If Diana has worn disguises on missions before (and used her lasso to change), then I'm even more concerned about Clark's lesson on dual identities. It seems that if she's gone undercover in the past, Wonder Woman would have figured out how to unplug in another guise a long time ago. She shouldn't have needed Clark's alter ego insight to grasp the idea that disguises work.

    Maybe she stopped at a Macy's somewhere between Smallville and Metropolis? Or she transported up to get her spare dress out of a locker in the Watchtower? Or maybe the lasso brought it out of her real or virtual wardrobe? Usually people supply their own clothes for dates. Without an indication that Superman provided her dress, I think it makes sense to assume that she got it for herself.
    Look, it's just strange that readers have to do all of this guesswork. If Diana is going to start doing iconic things like use her lasso to facilitate a costume change, I'd like to know how she knew it would work. And, since I still don't know whose glasses Diana was wearing or where she got her dress, I don't know how to interpret Clark's role in the relationship. It seems like he had a very feminine pair of glasses at the ready for Wonder Woman to try out, and I don't know why or when he got them. I'm sure Diana did supply her own dress but a simple line about stopping to shop on the way to the restaurant would have been an easy and nice way to connect the dots.

    Except he doesn't say "This looks like a job for Superman and Wonder Woman"; he simply says "us," which keeps them on terms of equality (as they should be). And she contributes about as much as he does to the effort; Superman and Wonder Woman working as equals to lift an aircraft carrier is a little different from Robin watching while Batman pulls the day-saving secret weapon out of his utility belt.
    As someone who tutors students in grammar and writing, I can tell you that replacing two proper nouns with the collective pronoun "us" does not add any connotation of equality.

    And look again at JL 12, by the way. Right after Superman explains his reasons for keeping
    ???

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