Mary Jane and Superior Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #700 Spoilers)

[Mark_S]

They're doing a mind swap story in a comic book, it's you who is bringing in real world implications. Yes, there was a scene in the beginning of the book when a super villain nearly did something villainous. The scene was meant to make you feel uncomfortable but at the end of the issue he had a change of heart which is being completely ignored to score points.

A few months ago Doc Ock tried to end 99% of life on Earth, why is no one suggesting that is going to be a plot point? Why does no one suggest he might try and complete one of his master plans? Because we have been told that he is going try to be hero now, so we accept he's going to put his cold blooded killing and world domination plans to one side for that but for some strange reason people assume he'll still be a rapist. Why? I think it's because it's an easy subject to moralize over.

As I said before, it's pretty deplorable to exploit such a topic to criticize a status quo change in a comic book.

Why do we assume that his current switch is going to last and he won't go after MJ later? Doc Ock is in perfect position right now to do just about anything he wants. Since he was the one who came up with the brain switch idea why won't he just modify his brain to edit out Peter's memories?

[Mark_S]

QFO (Quoted for Ownage)

I'm still trying to figure out why we as fans are the bad guys in all of this, when they brought the issue up?

.

I think they'd say it is because we are either reading too much into it, taking it too seriously, aren't bright enough to understand the story or just hate marvel and Spiderman so much since OMD/BND that we're looking for something to hit them with. It's never their fault, it's always our fault.

[Mark_S]

I think basically this is the attitude that marvel has.

Seto Kaiba
Screw the rules I have $$
Join Date
Jul 2004
Posts
398

People are seriously worried about rape? Did this come up in a what if years ago? Peter was killed and Ben took his place for awhile before MJ found out? No one called him out on it then.

And honestly, would this come up if Peter were suffering from...I dunno....a personality change? Given how they did this, it's my belief that this is less "Ock in Peter's body" and more "Peter thinking he's Ock". If people would stop and look at 700 and Avenging 15.1, you can see the clues. Peter was starting to take on some of Ock's mannerisms. Also, in Avenging, Ock instinctively stopped a robbery.

So no...if Peter/MJ were to...er..."share a toothbrush" as he once put it, it wouldn't be rape. Granted it wouldn't be exactly the man she thought he was, but for all intents in purposes, it's Peter Parker and she consented to it. He's just not in his right mind.

[Seto Kaiba]

It wouldn't be rape. I'm seriously thinking this is more Peter thinking he's Ock than an actual "mind swap". For all intents and purposes and to everyone else, this is Peter Parker. His body, fingerprints, dna...it's all Peter. He just thinks he's someone else. There is nothing to prove that this ISN'T Peter except for his mannerisms. If MJ consented to having sex with him, then it's not rape. She sees that he's different and she would still want to have sex.

If he forced her though, then it would be rape, plain and simple. If she notices the differences and STILL wants him, it's not rape.

[Raphael Edwards]

I think basically this is the attitude that marvel has.

He couldn't possibly mean that...Could he?

[The Superior Michael Deery]

What is wrong with being concerned with how sexual assault is portrayed in the media, specifically comic books since this is a comic book website? I guess we also shouldn't ever discuss how race, sex, or gender are portrayed in comics? Because comics are just so trivial. Well, I guess that's it. Shut down the forums, it's all over. Comics are such a low form of entertainment they warrant no discussion.

I could give a crap about the dick measuring contests that have been going on here since I was a mere lurker wondering why some poster was calling himself Stephen Wacker, the name of the editor of ASM. I have little interest in your grudges against each other. I am not affecting some sort of persona. This is an issue I actually care about. I'm a nurse that works in women's health. We just finished an election cycle where men just couldn't stop talking about what qualifies as legitimate rape. It's super fun to come here and be dismissed and belittled for expressing concerns about where the M.J./Ock situation may go based on what has already happened in the story. And as a lifelong comic book fan and a woman, I'm concerned in general about the portrayal of female characters in comics. Cause it's not like positive portrayals in the media ever made an impact, or anything, right?

Cue glib response

No one is saying it is wrong to talk about how rape is portrayed in comic books, that's not the problem I have with this discussion. Most of the people complaining do not care about rape as an issue, they are using rape to take shots at a status quo change. If they liked that Ock is now in Peter's body they would not be talking about this. I know this because a few years ago a story came out where the Chameleon, dressed as Peter, kissed a woman. People on the boards were out raged at a rape scene that wasn't published, then when the story revealed that there was definitely not a rape they still bashed Marvel over a rape that did not happen. The did not care whether the rape did or did not take place, they just wanted something to attack Wacker etc. over because it is not enough for them to dislike a story, they need to be morally superior to the people making it.

In this story the idea of Doc Ock having sex with MJ while in Peter's body has been shown to be 100% wrong, that's what has appeared on the actual page, read issue 699 and you'll see it is used as motivation for Peter to escape from prison, something that on the page is being shown as wrong people are accusing the creators of endorsing, it makes no sense.

That it appears [or not appears in this case] in a comic book is not what trivializes rape, it's that people are using it to bash something unimportant. If this was a serious discussion about how rape is used in the media or in comic books I'd be all for it, just yesterday I spoke about how wrong it was to introduce rape into Black Cat's back story, I find rape repulsive and I think it is used in such a nonchalant way because most men lack the empathy to put themselves in a woman's shoes. But that's not what's going on here, this is a thread to bash a story in which Doc Ock swaps brains with Peter Parker, and the subject of rape is being exploited to do it. That's what I find deplorable.

[Raphael Edwards]

No one is saying it is wrong to talk about how rape is portrayed in comic books, that's not the problem I have with this discussion. Most of the people complaining do not care about rape as an issue, they are using rape to take shots at a status quo change. If they liked that Ock is now in Peter's body they would not be talking about this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would still be proclaiming it rape, because it would be and I'm extra biased because I see Peter as MJ's and MJ as Peter's and no one else should come between them.

[DV1Band]

I couldn't agree more.

[DV1Band]

Until it actually happens though, why not just leave it alone?

[The Superior Michael Deery]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would still be proclaiming it rape, because it would be and I'm extra biased because I see Peter as MJ's and MJ as Peter's and no one else should come between them.

The second part of that post shows how ridiculous this thread is

[The Superior Michael Deery]

I can't believe there is a rape poll

[Raphael Edwards]

The second part of that post shows how ridiculous this thread is

My post or yours? Not an insult, I'm just not certain what you mean.

[Sighphi]

No one is saying it is wrong to talk about how rape is portrayed in comic books, that's not the problem I have with this discussion. Most of the people complaining do not care about rape as an issue, they are using rape to take shots at a status quo change. If they liked that Ock is now in Peter's body they would not be talking about this. I know this because a few years ago a story came out where the Chameleon, dressed as Peter, kissed a woman. People on the boards were out raged at a rape scene that wasn't published, then when the story revealed that there was definitely not a rape they still bashed Marvel over a rape that did not happen. The did not care whether the rape did or did not take place, they just wanted something to attack Wacker etc. over because it is not enough for them to dislike a story, they need to be morally superior to the people making it.

In this story the idea of Doc Ock having sex with MJ while in Peter's body has been shown to be 100% wrong, that's what has appeared on the actual page, read issue 699 and you'll see it is used as motivation for Peter to escape from prison, something that on the page is being shown as wrong people are accusing the creators of endorsing, it makes no sense.

That it appears [or not appears in this case] in a comic book is not what trivializes rape, it's that people are using it to bash something unimportant. If this was a serious discussion about how rape is used in the media or in comic books I'd be all for it, just yesterday I spoke about how wrong it was to introduce rape into Black Cat's back story, I find rape repulsive and I think it is used in such a nonchalant way because most men lack the empathy to put themselves in a woman's shoes. But that's not what's going on here, this is a thread to bash a story in which Doc Ock swaps brains with Peter Parker, and the subject of rape is being exploited to do it. That's what I find deplorable.

The idea that this might happen has not stopped with this story as it continues to be tease my Marvel themselves.

[The Batman]

The story raises the specter of something, but that often happens in a work of fiction. The most recent issue of Daredevil ended with Superior Spider-Man promising to destroy him, but Daredevil fans aren't screaming about whether their hero is going to be murdered in the next issue.

For that matter, that storyline dealt with human trafficking, forced labour, and sex slavery without much outrage, outcry, or concern over how this might affect children.

[toastedbread]

No one is saying it is wrong to talk about how rape is portrayed in comic books, that's not the problem I have with this discussion. Most of the people complaining do not care about rape as an issue, they are using rape to take shots at a status quo change. If they liked that Ock is now in Peter's body they would not be talking about this.

I'm so glad I have you here to tell me why I care about this and whether or not those reasons are legitimate. I thought I cared about the portrayal of rape in the media and the mass panic surrounding any attempt to discuss it. But thankfully a bunch of dudes have arrived to set me straight. How wonderfully unusual!