Mary Jane and Superior Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #700 Spoilers)

[Mister Mets]

A cover that shows them making out makes it seem "unlikely" to happen? MJ ripping off Octo-Man's clothes makes it seem "unlikely" to happen?

What Mystique, Daken, Fantomex, and Poison Ivy do is, at absolute BEST, a form of date rape. At worst, well... there's no "at best" for Mystique, she's clearly a serial rapist.

The difference is that they are not currently one of the tent-poles of the company. If you ask fans out there on the street who Daken or Fantomex are, they'll look at you like you're high. But they'll know who Spider-Man is. And Spider-Man turning into a rapist is NOT something that people who actually LIKE the character want to see.

Do we know if Octo-Man and MJ are going to make the beast with nine legs? No. But, as the saying goes, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". If we let our concerns be known NOW, that may work to alleviate our concerns LATER.

Slott tweeted that he'll address this topic in Superior Spider-Man #2, so it's unlikely that anything said here is going to affect an issue that's already been written and illustrated.

Didnt quesada get demoted because he made a cluster out of spiderman? This octoman story is a lame gimmick but harmless. Possible rape going on smells like quesada influence though. Maybe they need a woman editor so stuff like this stops getting through. Guys really dont think this constitutes rape.

I don't believe there's a consensus that Quesada got demoted. Nor is there any indication that he was penalized for anything to do with Spider-Man.

If you're aware of any source that says different, I'd love to see it.

You obviously haven't read the She-Hulk story where Starfox got away with using his powers to get multitudes of women into bed because "Thanos made it so he couldn't turn off his power" or whatever bullshit reasoning was used.

Starfox was a rapist. Marvel published a story saying "Nah, it's cool dude."

In the She-Hulk story with Starfox, the question was whether Starfox intentionally used his power to seduce his women. If Thanos made it so that Starfox couldn't turn off his power, the women were wronged, but he wasn't at fault.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Oh come on Father J, comics are like after school specials. They never go down like that. I'm guessing that Ock will do his best to save people and develop a repoire with MJ. In the beginning he'll be like YeaY I killed Peter, but once he actually lives Pete's life, he'll most likely want to know more on what made the guy keep going. He'll get more and more curious about Pete and his lifestyle. That information can only come from MJ and although she hates him at first for what hes done, doc tells her Pete's final wish and how he'll uphold that no matter what. Whether they fall in love or not isn't for me to say, but what kind of toll would this take on MJ? She kinda has to be civil to the very man thats wearing her ex husband's face as hes trying to do the right thing for her safety and the safety of the world in his own way.

P.S: I'm not sure what you expect for Tony or Reed to do. The real Pete is dead and only his imprint is in the Doc Ock brain. Its not like they can revive him and switch him back unless they take the villanous Hand route. This exact thing kinda happened with Psylocke and Revanche and it was never fixed by the brilliant minds of Marvel U. Hell, Betsy became more iconic for the change.

Well, then, you can forgive shitty, nonsensical writing. I can't.

And what I'd expect for Tony or Reed to do is try to restore Pete. If that doesn't work, it's simple. Lock Octo-Man up behind bars and never let him out. He's STILL a mass murderer. He STILL tried to end the world. He STILL killed Peter. There's NO WAY that anyone who was one of Peter's friends would just let him get away with that.

None.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Slott tweeted that he'll address this topic in Superior Spider-Man #2, so it's unlikely that anything said here is going to affect an issue that's already been written and illustrated.

I don't believe there's a consensus that Quesada got demoted. Nor is there any indication that he was penalized for anything to do with Spider-Man.

If you're aware of any source that says different, I'd love to see it.

In the She-Hulk story with Starfox, the question was whether Starfox intentionally used his power to seduce his women. If Thanos made it so that Starfox couldn't turn off his power, the women were wronged, but he wasn't at fault.

He still used those powers to get women into bed. He's still a rapist. He still got away with it scot free. Sorry. There's no defending Starfox's actions here.

As for the issue about #2... I'm well aware of that. And no, we can't change what's already been written and illustrated. But if we voice our concerns NOW, we might be able to at least get Dan Slott thinking about things that he hasn't yet written and Ramos (or whoever) hasn't yet illustrated. If we wait until #2 to start saying things, then that means that everything through #6, or whatever, is set in stone. If we wait til #6, then everything through #10 is set. If we wait til #10... well. You can see where this is going.

[Mister Mets]

Well here are my thoughts on all this.

Let me start by saying that I'm dropping the title and won't be picking it until Peter returns.

That being said, this body-switch thing opens a very dangerous and moral ambiguity aspect to the stories in the future as well as the characters. Which is very interesting and powerful. But this also means Marvel, and Dan Slott in particular have to be very careful how they write the stories. Please never lose sight that all of us are invested in the majority of these characters. So please don't ruin them for us.

@Stephen Wacker, I think we can all play nice and discuss this without passive-aggressive comments. After all, we are all here because we SHARE a love for comics and story-telling.

I don't think writers should be too careful. It's way too restrictive if they're bound by the tastes of the most sensitive readers when dealing with a major part of life, and something that's been a story engine for thousands of years. Humans sometimes act badly, and fiction should reflect that.

[jsg2295]

Oh come on Father J, comics are like after school specials. They never go down like that. I'm guessing that Ock will do his best to save people and develop a repoire with MJ. In the beginning he'll be like YeaY I killed Peter, but once he actually lives Pete's life, he'll most likely want to know more on what made the guy keep going. He'll get more and more curious about Pete and his lifestyle. That information can only come from MJ and although she hates him at first for what hes done, doc tells her Pete's final wish and how he'll uphold that no matter what. Whether they fall in love or not isn't for me to say, but what kind of toll would this take on MJ? She kinda has to be civil to the very man thats wearing her ex husband's face as hes trying to do the right thing for her safety and the safety of the world in his own way.

P.S: I'm not sure what you expect for Tony or Reed to do. The real Pete is dead and only his imprint is in the Doc Ock brain. Its not like they can revive him and switch him back unless they take the villanous Hand route. This exact thing kinda happened with Psylocke and Revanche and it was never fixed by the brilliant minds of Marvel U. Hell, Betsy became more iconic for the change.

The point is...she doesnt have to be civil to Spock...and why should she.....for example...if your dad had a twin. He and the twin get into a fight and somehow your dad was killed and this twin was now posing as your dad. Would you expect your mom to be happy being around the person that killed your dad? Apologies in advance if you have had something unfortunate happen in your family

[charlesthehammer]

Oh come on Father J, comics are like after school specials. They never go down like that. I'm guessing that Ock will do his best to save people and develop a repoire with MJ. In the beginning he'll be like YeaY I killed Peter, but once he actually lives Pete's life, he'll most likely want to know more on what made the guy keep going. He'll get more and more curious about Pete and his lifestyle. That information can only come from MJ and although she hates him at first for what hes done, doc tells her Pete's final wish and how he'll uphold that no matter what. Whether they fall in love or not isn't for me to say, but what kind of toll would this take on MJ? She kinda has to be civil to the very man thats wearing her ex husband's face as hes trying to do the right thing for her safety and the safety of the world in his own way.

P.S: I'm not sure what you expect for Tony or Reed to do. The real Pete is dead and only his imprint is in the Doc Ock brain. Its not like they can revive him and switch him back unless they take the villanous Hand route. This exact thing kinda happened with Psylocke and Revanche and it was never fixed by the brilliant minds of Marvel U. Hell, Betsy became more iconic for the change.

There is like a 90% chance that happens and I will hate it.

[jsg2295]

He still used those powers to get women into bed. He's still a rapist. He still got away with it scot free. Sorry. There's no defending Starfox's actions here.

As for the issue about #2... I'm well aware of that. And no, we can't change what's already been written and illustrated. But if we voice our concerns NOW, we might be able to at least get Dan Slott thinking about things that he hasn't yet written and Ramos (or whoever) hasn't yet illustrated. If we wait until #2 to start saying things, then that means that everything through #6, or whatever, is set in stone. If we wait til #6, then everything through #10 is set. If we wait til #10... well. You can see where this is going.

That its a success because it got to issue 10?

[Mister Mets]

He still used those powers to get women into bed. He's still a rapist. He still got away with it scot free. Sorry. There's no defending Starfox's actions here.

As for the issue about #2... I'm well aware of that. And no, we can't change what's already been written and illustrated. But if we voice our concerns NOW, we might be able to at least get Dan Slott thinking about things that he hasn't yet written and Ramos (or whoever) hasn't yet illustrated. If we wait until #2 to start saying things, then that means that everything through #6, or whatever, is set in stone. If we wait til #6, then everything through #10 is set. If we wait til #10... well. You can see where this is going.

Starfox's actions can be defended if he didn't intend to do it. It's possible to benefit from someone else's crime.

[Father_Jerusalem]

That its a success because it got to issue 10?

If a comic with "Spider-Man" in the title doesn't get to issue 10, then there are bigger problems out there than anything we're discussing here.

[jsg2295]

Starfox's actions can be defended if he didn't intend to do it. It's possible to benefit from someone else's crime.

Lets not go here....someone can murder someone accidently but you still took a life...

[infernohara]

You do have a point. Which makes me think that MJ won't find out that Ock is Spiderman until late in the game for this to work. Saying hes really Doctor Octopus should send her running to the police for his constant threats on the world. Hell, any character with this type of information would be fearful of this new Spiderman. Considering how serious she thought the fight was between "Pete" and Doctor Octopus, it'll be hard to suspend belief that she would just be cool with her friend's murderer.

Ugh. I guess I'm just so fascinated by this move that I'm not paying attention to the whole context of the story. I really wanna know how Dan and company are going to pull this off.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Starfox's actions can be defended if he didn't intend to do it. It's possible to benefit from someone else's crime.

Not really, if he knows that he's affecting women with his powers (intentionally or not) then he has a responsibility to take himself away from situations in which that would happen. He did nothing of the sort. He simply said "Fuck it, I'm gonna get laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid".

If he had, at least, TRIED to hang out in deep space away from people or something, then you could make a case that he wasn't purposefully taking advantage of his powers. He didn't.

[The Nuke]

Isn't it interesting that after years of fans wanting to see Pete and MJ get back together, they instead get Doc Ock in Peter's body with MJ? If Slott was a mean man I'd say he did this on purpose just to give an extra middle finger to fans.

[Father_Jerusalem]

You do have a point. Which makes me think that MJ won't find out that Ock is Spiderman until late in the game for this to work. Saying hes really Doctor Octopus should send her running to the police for his constant threats on the world. Hell, any character with this type of information would be fearful of this new Spiderman. Considering how serious she thought the fight was between "Pete" and Doctor Octopus, it'll be hard to suspend belief that she would just be cool with her friend's murderer.

Ugh. I guess I'm just so fascinated by this move that I'm not paying attention to the whole context of the story. I really wanna know how Dan and company are going to pull this off.

And I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm REALLY not. I just want to make sure that people ARE paying attention to the bigger context of the story, and all the repercussions therein because I LIKE these characters.

If I hated Peter, or MJ, or even Doc Ock, I'd just say "fuck it, whatever". It's because I have an emotional investment in these characters that I care. And that's a testament to all the people who have worked on Spider-Man throughout the history of the character.

[infernohara]

The point is...she doesnt have to be civil to Spock...and why should she.....for example...if your dad had a twin. He and the twin get into a fight and somehow your dad was killed and this twin was now posing as your dad. Would you expect your mom to be happy being around the person that killed your dad? Apologies in advance if you have had something unfortunate happen in your family

Theres a difference between the two stories though and I don't just mean comicwise. For example, we don't know how much of an influence that Pete has over Doc Ock. As shown in the Avenging title "Pete" is still there and does things without Doc's permission. That part of Doc could be used to make her more civil towrads the character.

What conflicts me more is that Peter is still in there with Doc Ock, its not like this is just totally Otto and hes just doing things how he wants it, Pete is actually there as well influencing actions without a speaking voice. This is quite different from someone whose just posing as another person. That very person is actually there in this situation. Whose to say that Doc even TRIES to get intimate with MJ that "Pete" won't sock him in the mouth or mess it up in some way?