Mary Jane and Superior Spider-Man (Amazing Spider-Man #700 Spoilers)

[Meehaul]

MJ just doesn't add much to the mix--but she is more of a fit for the glitzy Spider-Ock if they go that route than she ever was for Pete. Would be interesting to see Ock make MJ feel about seeing Pete's face the way she did (for a time) about seeing the black suit. Even though she knows it's not really Pete, she can't wholly separate the body from the person.

[Kiryu]

There's quite few things Rich Johnson doesn't seem to get here or has overlooked. First of all, the scene with "Spock" and MJ in the beginning? I don't think MJ is actually initiating sex in that particular instance. Note her reaction when, after ripping off "Spock's" shirt to see the Spider-Man costume underneath? I think that was to show that MJ was starting to suspect that "Spock" might be an imposter because of all the things "Peter" was doing that seemed out of character. But once she saw he was wearing the Spider-Man costume, that when she essentially "Oh. It really is Peter. At least, that's what I THINK Slott was trying to get across because it, admittedly, isn't very clear.

Disagree with you 100% on that scene. It seemed clear to me that her "You're Spider-man" was in reaction to him lusting after her even though she said they can't be together because she wants his babies but doesn't want to be his Spider-Baby-Momma and that something is stopping Ock from remembering that particular piece of trivia. Hence his surprised reaction and inability to comprehend why she'd care that he was Spider-Man.

Also sorry to ruin anyone's Revenge of the Nerds rapefantasies but if Doc Ock sleeps with MJ using Peter's body without her knowing he is Doc Ock wearing the skin of the man she loves who he murdered WHILE TRYING TO RAPE HER it's 100% undisputable rape and it's not MJ's fault it's Otto and it's rape. I don't even understand the level of humanity you have to be at to think if a woman sleeps with you while thinking you are the man she loves when you are really the man who murdered her lover isn't rape. Seriously kids. There isn't wiggle room here.

If Ock falls asleep and MJ ties him and jumps his bones completely of her own volition then it is still rape because she thinks she is jumping Peter's bones but is instead having sex with a mass murdering wanna-be rapist piece of garbage.

[Nite-Wing]

Why doesn't Mary Jane realize that Peter is saying things that sound totally unlike him. I mean at some point it kinda smacks you in the face with the fact that MJ is a bit dim with the uptake or she just doesn't pay attention to Peter at all.

All the icky rape stuff is kinda off into the future if they do get down. Right now its at grade school level where some kid forces a kiss on a girl.

[SPIDER-FAN(1)]

I still do not understand how MJ did not notice the personality change "Peter" and Trapster did.

[EuphemismForSex]

I still do not understand how MJ did not notice the personality change "Peter" and Trapster did.

Clearly the relationship between Ock and Trapster is much more intimate than we realized. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't Trapster who unravels the mystery after trying to avenge his secret lover.

[Hariel0079]

You aren't even a good troll, your arguments are incomprehensible.

My points are valid, you just don't like the way the story is being presented.

[Dragonfirexl]

Barney is though? Like I have no problem calling him that and any character that follows his archetype. Popular as it may be. Harris is a good actor and he does good enough to make him likeable, but that doesn't really change what the character is. Though I hope people care, is a serious issue.

Lying to get sex, while morally reprehensible is not rape. Who is hurt if some girl believes he is a million dollar oil tycoon or some russian mobster, in the end she consents to sleeping with him.

If Ock has Peter's genuine feelings for MJ besides her hot body, than any action taken to court her is redeemable, Ock has stopped calling himself Octavius and has declared himself Peter Parker. If he truley sees himself as Peter Parker due hto having his mind, memories, and body then it stands to reason it is not Doc Ock romancing Mary Jane but a brand new Peter Parker. But cmon the deception will most likely be revealed, MJ in order to honor old pete will help new pete become a good person, and maybe she will develop feelings for him.

Also this is why Comic Book Readers get reputations for being overzealous and judgemental (Myself included), we are debating the possibility of sexual intercourse between two fictional characters and trying to figure whether it is rape or not. Cmon dont we have enough real issues going in the world that we can let this fall by the wayside until something is actually confirmed. How bout we stop worrying about whether new pete can get in MJ pants, and mourn the loss of Peter Benjamin Parker (The Worlds Greatest superhero) May his light find its way back to our world.

[stillanerd]

Disagree with you 100% on that scene. It seemed clear to me that her "You're Spider-man" was in reaction to him lusting after her even though she said they can't be together because she wants his babies but doesn't want to be his Spider-Baby-Momma and that something is stopping Ock from remembering that particular piece of trivia. Hence his surprised reaction and inability to comprehend why she'd care that he was Spider-Man.

Oh, the part of him lusting after her is what rouses her suspicion, yes. But she already knows that Peter is still being Spider-Man before this. That's why I'm thinking this was MJ being surprised to see that "Peter" wasn't an imposter and that Doc Ock, obviously not getting it, asking her what the problem is since she's known Peter's secret identity for years. But as I said, the scene is not written very clear in this regard so I'm just guessing why MJ reacted the way she did in that scene.

Also sorry to ruin anyone's Revenge of the Nerds rapefantasies but if Doc Ock sleeps with MJ using Peter's body without her knowing he is Doc Ock wearing the skin of the man she loves who he murdered WHILE TRYING TO RAPE HER it's 100% undisputable rape and it's not MJ's fault it's Otto and it's rape. I don't even understand the level of humanity you have to be at to think if a woman sleeps with you while thinking you are the man she loves when you are really the man who murdered her lover isn't rape. Seriously kids. There isn't wiggle room here.

If Ock falls asleep and MJ ties him and jumps his bones completely of her own volition then it is still rape because she thinks she is jumping Peter's bones but is instead having sex with a mass murdering wanna-be rapist piece of garbage.

100% agreed.

[EuphemismForSex]

Lying to get sex, while morally reprehensible is not rape. Who is hurt if some girl believes he is a million dollar oil tycoon or some russian mobster, in the end she consents to sleeping with him.

If Ock has Peter's genuine feelings for MJ besides her hot body, than any action taken to court her is redeemable, Ock has stopped calling himself Octavius and has declared himself Peter Parker. If he truley sees himself as Peter Parker due hto having his mind, memories, and body then it stands to reason it is not Doc Ock romancing Mary Jane but a brand new Peter Parker. But cmon the deception will most likely be revealed, MJ in order to honor old pete will help new pete become a good person, and maybe she will develop feelings for him.

Also this is why Comic Book Readers get reputations for being overzealous and judgemental (Myself included), we are debating the possibility of sexual intercourse between two fictional characters and trying to figure whether it is rape or not. Cmon dont we have enough real issues going in the world that we can let this fall by the wayside until something is actually confirmed. How bout we stop worrying about whether new pete can get in MJ pants, and mourn the loss of Peter Benjamin Parker (The Worlds Greatest superhero) May his light find its way back to our world.

Well firstly, he's not. He knows he's Ock. And secondly, we aren't. It is.

[Hariel0079]

Doc Ock isn't Peter, memories or not...it's wrong he's deceiving Mary Jane.

The only thing that is flawless is the method in which Mary Jane is being deceived, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

It's irrelevant cause other than the reader, nobody knows and he's currently peter parker story wise to the folks in the story memories and all, it isn't rape if the guy is passing for who MJ believes and is allowing him to kiss her and even sleep with her.

[Dangerous]

I somebody snaps at me I immediately assume they had their mind swapped with someone else. It's the only logical conclusion.

Peter would not talk to MJ like that
and you don't live in the MU were superpowered indivuals, aliens and technology far in advance of our own is known to exist.

[ViewtifulJC]

It's irrelevant cause other than the reader, nobody knows and he's currently peter parker story wise to the folks in the story memories and all, it isn't rape if the guy is passing for who MJ believes and is allowing him to kiss her and even sleep with her.

I imagine when Peter comes back, that'll be the execuse he uses

"Don't worry, MJ! Ock had my body and my memories, so it wasn't really a lie!"

I'm sure that'll go over well.

[Dragonfirexl]

If Ock falls asleep and MJ ties him and jumps his bones completely of her own volition then it is still rape because she thinks she is jumping Peter's bones but is instead having sex with a mass murdering wanna-be rapist piece of garbage.

Yes that is rape, Mary Jane would be raping Doctor Octopus.

Also really is there a precident set up a for a case like this, it is regrettable and morally wrong but I just dont see how you can call it rape. If I tell a girl I am the king of norway and she decides to sleep with me, then finds out im not can she call that rape, even if she 100 percent believed I was the king of norway.

[Kiryu]

Oh, the part of him lusting after her is what rouses her suspicion, yes. But she already knows that Peter is still being Spider-Man before this. That's why I'm thinking this was MJ being surprised to see that "Peter" wasn't an imposter and that Doc Ock, obviously not getting it, asking her what the problem is since she's known Peter's secret identity for years. But as I said, the scene is not written very clear in this regard so I'm just guessing why MJ reacted the way she did in that scene.

Perhaps! I think she thought that if Peter was making a play for her love, seriously, she hoped he would have given up being Spider-Man, so she ripped the shirt open and then was dejected and disappointed to find he hadn't. But I only read the issue so it could definitely be either way and I think there is sound logic behind your reasoning.

[The Superior Michael Deery]

Peter would not talk to MJ like that
and you don't live in the MU were superpowered indivuals, aliens and technology far in advance of our own is known to exist.

He once slapped her in the face without a mind swap.

I do not live in a world like the Marvel Universe, I do live in the world where I read comics set in that universe and even with the knowledge I have of that universe, I and a lot of fans did not catch on he had changed and we were told to expect something big.

You know the secret so imagine it should be easy to guess.