Justice League #15 Discussion/Spoilers

[rude.cherub]

Who knows what happened when she first showed up? They couldve stared her down then. And isnt this in the England? She could be not as big of a name and tabloid queen as she is in the US. But either way she couldnt see Clark in public as WW without drawing to much unneeded attention to him and thus unto herself which wouldnt be a fun date.

We don't know the details of Diana's 'Club Scene' for example in Bell, Book and Candle, with James Stewart - Kim Kovak and Jack Lemon frequent a club for Witches. Perhaps Constantine would know this hang out in London? Maybe it's the kind of place people look the other way.
Also the date in JL #15 happened in Boston, maybe they're used to seeing Wonder Woman - why would you assume it was Wonder Woman in the club in London.

Isn't that why Celebs get out of their usual environments, and why many choose London!

And that's even with the signature jewelry - available I'm sure for cosplaying - for example, just suppose you saw a elderly lady in a Boston Cafe that looked like the Queen of England having a cup of tea would you think it was the Queen, or just someone look-a-likey? What makes the Queen - the Queen, is the hoopla that goes with being Queen. Driving a Landrover in a headscarf she looks like any other country type of old lady that drives old landrovers around and about.



Or if you were an ace-reporter like Lois Lane who is so totally awesome who happened to see Supergirl - in full costume - at Clark Kent's apartment, you don't assume this is *the* Supergirl, but a cosplay.

[hellacre]

The action art and everything was awesome. Reis and Prado do bring their A game. It is a spectacle. But I really like how Johns is developing the characters now. Arthur and Bruce are really interesting because this isn't like the usual him and Superman where Clark is the easy going one, humorous one and Bruce gets to be cantankerous. Arthur is as bossy as he is. I love how Johns humanized Clark and Diana on their date. Johns really got Clark Kent down in these pages and he is such a great contrast to the stoic Superman that Diana was accustomed to being around. Diana is 23. She is a young woman, not some old matron. All she has been doing in her own books is looking after people and protecting them and if she is seen to be supposedly relaxing it is always on her own and never with someone who shares her enjoyment. Wonder Woman in her own book seems lonely too. I think I recall what being young and being with a guy you might be falling for feels like at this age. Maybe people might have called me an idiot too. The giggle and the joy was so cute considering how unrelenting and tough her life has been as shown in both books. I think stuff like this makes characters relateable and not on some pedestal where they these untouchable heroes who are just in control all the time and to be honest I have seen little of Diana in terms of what she wants/needs/desires in terms of personal desire in her own book. As a good friend of mine said, we are never too old or too young to have a giggle.

The power couple working together was good stuff.

Having to deal with media hounding her and maybe her dates with Steve was like that...for her this must be a relief. The stuff in the WW book is asking us believe Diana is walking around London and no one sees her, all she has to do is put on spiffy clothes. I don't even know if Londoners know if WW was among them. Diana as Wonder Woman fought openly and yet we saw no reaction. In dark bars no one cares really but in daylight you kinda stand out if you are her. Mind, I know people tend to mind their own business. There is that old joke people sit on the underground and can't even look at each other in the eye and bury their head in a book or newspaper etc. But I do know British tabloids are like sharks and it is odd no one picked up on her as yet.

Johns was wise enough to show juxtaposition... before what a date between Superman and Wonder Woman would look like last issue. And they stand out like like two brightly colored birds. Here they are understated and normal folks wouldn't consider that couple sitting quietly are even them. I hope Johns continue to bring the quiter, character moments and not just big action. He did a really good balance of both and that for me makes a good read. Cyborg is going to get his own arc after this so we will see more of Vic and it's clear Johns cares about Victor and the quiet moments we have so far with Vic makes my heart go out to him. Another young character whose whole life has been turned up sided down.

Lois and Jimmy seemed just shoe horned in really. It made no huge difference to what was going on other than they always (again) conveniently around and just happend to be the two people there to see Clark and Diana hold the carrier when there must be thousands of other people in that city who could have witnessed this etc.

[Jake Fury]

I buy this book for the action but this one had some good character moments as well. The art is simply gorgeous. Clark & Diana's date was awesome and I like how their relationship is being brought along slowly.

[Ghost Shark]

Thumbs WAAAAY up!

[Charlus]

Two things:

1) I am loving this crossover.

2) I love every pannel in which Mera appears.

[misslane38]

Lois and Jimmy seemed just shoe horned in really. It made no huge difference to what was going on other than they always (again) conveniently around and just happend to be the two people there to see Clark and Diana hold the carrier when there must be thousands of other people in that city who could have witnessed this etc.

They were there to root the catastrophe in Metropolis and provide identifiable human stakes. They aren't "conveniently around" when it's the city in which they live, and while others would have witnessed the carrier lift, if you're going to have someone comment on it, why not make it people who have a connection to the characters in question and who readers are familiar with? Plus, it led nicely into the Aquaman #15 appearance where the juxtaposition of Lois Lane's faith in Vulko and Wonder Woman's suspicion of him was illuminating. Their appearance was harmless, so complaining about it and talking about switching two recognizable characters for strangers just because doesn't make sense to me.

I can't wait to see your reaction to the Clark Diana Lois Love triangle coming in Action.

Not another one. I've repeatedly said I don't have a problem with Lois being jealous. I have a problem with the text-based reasons provided in this issue for her jealousy. Seeing Superman and Wonder Woman being heroes together would not have clued Lois into the fact that they were a couple. And, for the record, there isn't going to be a love triangle. Andy Diggle specifically said, "I’m not saying it’s going to be a love triangle exactly, but certainly we’ll be exploring that in the comics."

Also the date in JL #15 happened in Boston

Wrong. It was Metropolis, as you can see below (click image for bigger).

And that's even with the signature jewelry - available I'm sure for cosplaying - for example, just suppose you saw a elderly lady in a Boston Cafe that looked like the Queen of England having a cup of tea would you think it was the Queen, or just someone look-a-likey? What makes the Queen - the Queen, is the hoopla that goes with being Queen. Driving a Landrover in a headscarf she looks like any other country type of old lady that drives old landrovers around and about.

My only problem with that logic is that the Queen looks like most older women. Diana does not look like most women.

Or if you were an ace-reporter like Lois Lane who is so totally awesome who happened to see Supergirl - in full costume - at Clark Kent's apartment, you don't assume this is *the* Supergirl, but a cosplay.

That was a stupid moment in Superman #14. Lois had seen Supergirl in close up news footage her news crew shot and was streaming into her office. Lobdell should have had Lois at least somewhat suspicious.

Maybe it's just me but I've never liked Lois or Jimmy. I know they keep Superman grounded but it always feel hokey when they're around and if they stick around long enough it feels like a sit-com and or soap opera.

They're not for everyone just like every Leaguer isn't going to be equally entertaining for everyone. We all have different likes and dislikes. What I dislike is Jimmy mostly, because he brings the "hokey" in my experience. He's often used like Ron Weasley was in the Harry Potter series, but he's never even given as much depth or as strong of a friendship or sense of equality with people like Clark and Lois as Ron was more often than not. As a group of friends, Clark, Lois, and Jimmy have come to remind me of the Harry Potter trio. The only difference, of course, being the Harry Potter trio had different romantic dynamics. Ron and Hermione were a couple, for instance, with the kind of love/hate growing attraction that led to a marriage between two people from different worlds (Hermione a mudblood or non-magical background and Ron a pureblood). While Harry and Ginny were a couple. Harry, unlike Superman, didn't grow up with good adopted parents or knowing he was a wizard, so he was attracted to Ginny who represented the magical family he yearned to belong to (Lois represents the human family Clark once had and yearns to rediscover). Basically, the key is balance when dealing with multiple character dynamics. Lois and Jimmy weren't in this issue enough or doing anything extreme enough for me to see them as anything but a harmless way of providing human stakes. Your mileage may vary.

[AlfredIslas]

This issue wasn't actually a pain to read for once.

[YMCMB]

Really liked this issue, good characterization, dialogue, art, and it excited me for the rest of the arc.

[Robotman4]

Loved this issue. When he has the right inker Reis is really amazing. Sometimes his faces look a bit awkward but Prado made everything look terrific! Like previous posters have said it's cool to see Johns working on character developement. Aquaman just brings out the best in him.

Can't say enough good things about the Shazam backup!

[batmanjones]

This was my favorite issue of the New 52.

A great issue of Justice League. I forgot what those were like.

Please let Johns and Reis stay on this title forever.

[Whip Whirlwind]

Not another one. I've repeatedly said I don't have a problem with Lois being jealous. I have a problem with the text-based reasons provided in this issue for her jealousy. Seeing Superman and Wonder Woman being heroes together would not have clued Lois into the fact that they were a couple. And, for the record, there isn't going to be a love triangle. Andy Diggle specifically said, "I’m not saying it’s going to be a love triangle exactly, but certainly we’ll be exploring that in the comics."

I dunno, you don't think theres a chance that Lois would be jealous of a woman who so seamlessly fits into Superman's "world"?

What I dislike is Jimmy mostly, because he brings the "hokey" in my experience. He's often used like Ron Weasley was in the Harry Potter series, but he's never even given as much depth or as strong of a friendship or sense of equality with people like Clark and Lois as Ron was more often than not.

Just curious, have you read Nick Spencer's Action back ups starring Jimmy Olsen? Personally I was very very disappointed that the new 52 version wasn't more like him, or considering that it was Grant, All Star Jimmy.

[misslane38]

I dunno, you don't think theres a chance that Lois would be jealous of a woman who so seamlessly fits into Superman's "world"?

No, she's never expressed a desire to be part of the superhero world. Plus, she's most certainly seen Superman and Wonder Woman fighting bad guys and saving the day in the past, so it makes little sense to me that seeing them lift an aircraft carrier would have been the moment the shock of jealousy would register emotionally.

Just curious, have you read Nick Spencer's Action back ups starring Jimmy Olsen? Personally I was very very disappointed that the new 52 version wasn't more like him, or considering that it was Grant, All Star Jimmy.

Yes, I've read Spencer's take on Jimmy. I was speaking more generally about Jimmy's entire canon. Some writers seem to know how to use him well, and so I definitely agree that Jimmy in the New 52 could be written better.

[Whip Whirlwind]

No, she's never expressed a desire to be part of the superhero world. Plus, she's most certainly seen Superman and Wonder Woman fighting bad guys and saving the day in the past, so it makes little sense to me that seeing them lift an aircraft carrier would have been the moment the shock of jealousy would register emotionally.

I'm not reading the superbooks anymore, but you're saying Lois wouldn't be at all envious of another woman who, as a result of being a superhero, gets to spend way more time with Superman than she does?

Surprising. But either way, I think it was more just Jimmy cracking jokes because he knows she's into Supes, and her being annoyed at the implication.

Yes, I've read Spencer's take on Jimmy. I was speaking more generally about Jimmy's entire canon. Some writers seem to know how to use him well, and so I definitely agree that Jimmy in the New 52 could be written better.

Honestly by making him Clark's best pal and not Superman's, as well as presumably taking away his history of adventures with Supes, it takes away a lot of what makes the character cool.

[misslane38]

I'm not reading the superbooks anymore, but you're saying Lois wouldn't be at all envious of another woman who, as a result of being a superhero, gets to spend way more time with Superman than she does?

Lois has barely expressed any romantic feelings at all for Superman, and she's known Superman and Wonder Woman spend time together for five years. There's no reason why she would just now suddenly be taken aback by such strong feelings of jealousy that those feelings would be etched on her face so even Jimmy Olsen could pick up on them in the middle of a massive deluge. Plus, she's living with her own boyfriend, Jonathan. The last time Lois was written to have even the remotest romantic interest in Superman was five years ago during Grant Morrison's Action Comics #12. Johns, on the other hand, wrote Lois to say "Superman is waiting for me" in one of his issues of Justice League.

Surprising. But either way, I think it was more just Jimmy cracking jokes because he knows she's into Supes, and her being annoyed at the implication.

But it's not clear to anyone that Lois is interested in Superman. She's just moved in with her boyfriend and she hasn't expressed any interest in Superman besides a passing reference while she was dying five years ago.

Honestly by making him Clark's best pal and not Superman's, as well as presumably taking away his history of adventures with Supes, it takes away a lot of what makes the character cool.

True.

[Whip Whirlwind]

Lois has barely expressed any romantic feelings at all for Superman, and she's known Superman and Wonder Woman spend time together for five years. There's no reason why she would just now suddenly be taken aback by such strong feelings of jealousy that those feelings would be etched on her face so even Jimmy Olsen could pick up on them in the middle of a massive deluge. Plus, she's living with her own boyfriend, Jonathan. The last time Lois was written to have even the remotest romantic interest in Superman was five years ago during Grant Morrison's Action Comics #12. Johns, on the other hand, wrote Lois to say "Superman is waiting for me" in one of his issues of Justice League.

But it's not clear to anyone that Lois is interested in Superman. She's just moved in with her boyfriend and she hasn't expressed any interest in Superman besides a passing reference while she was dying five years ago.

Lol well that explains it. I was operating on the assumption that Lois was interested in Superman and had made that interest apparent to the reader by now.

In that case, it is annoying when they can't keep up with their own reboots to characters.