Amazing Spider-Man #700 - Spoilers and Discussion (YOU'VE BEEN WARNED - SPOILERS)

[RyanParkerMan]

And, of course, there's always the possibility that someone'll try to ressurect Doc Ock, not knowing he's actually Peter Parker. D:

That's what so fun about all this. Who knows what the heck is going to happen? Slott's a continuity buff and Doc Ock's been resurrected before... why not?

Anything can happen.

I'm excited for superior. This is going to be fun.

[refrax5]

The point, good sir, is that responding to a four day old moment in time in the world of evolving opinion is a little weird. Maybe if it was the only thing I posted, but, well, heh. We both know that ain't true.



1) Just saying "it's different' over and over isn't an argument, it's blind faith. You're making a lot of assumptions about the way things will go down based on....well, nothing. Again, even though the marriage was known to be a target for a long time, I doubt anyone thought magic deal with the notDevil was going to be the method of that dissolution or that it would be just a pile of garbage. You're right that this _could_ be different. Or it could be the same. You simply don't know. Making predictions is fine, but today, none of those things exist. And I'm posting today.

I think it's different for obvious reasons. The marriage is not as iconic or as important to Marvel's branding as Peter Parker being Spider-Man. That's not even an argument. The odds of Marvel forevermore deciding to be rid of Peter Parker as Spider-Man are preposterously low. The marriage is not nearly as important to the entirety of the Spider-Man property as Peter Parker is.

2) Oh, it screws everything up, believe you me. It's not the first thing to screw everything up. It probably won't be the last , sadly. They may later on be able to FIX everything they screwed up. But unless they one day just ignore it and pull a Dallas, it'll have impact.

I guess I just find that to be hyperbolic. People said the same thing about Ben Reilly and the Clone Saga has almost no bearing on anything in Spider-Man nowadays. Gathering of the Five was a terrible story, but it's never even referred to. It's pretty much like none of it ever happened.

3) I am once again amazed at comic fans acceptance of bad things and other things they don't like. This is why this kind of crap keeps happening.

That's a pretty narrow and hardline view. I'm not really defending anything. I'm just saying that there have been plenty of times that comic companies shake up the status quo---the main character being replaced by a new guy is old hat and is temporary 99% of the time---and people freak out and overreact and it either ends up being a much better story than expected or it just ends up swept under the rug and forgotten. And I don't just acept things I don't like. I read what interests me at the time. I don't stop reading something out of protest normally. If it doesn't hold my interest, I don't read it. If it does, then I will. I think that's pretty reasonable and nothing like just accepting things I don't like.

Like I said, comic companies to this kind of "crap" all the time and I doubt I'm all that responsible for it. But I guess it depends on your definition of crap. Crap like what keeps happening? Bucky as Captain America? Kaine becoming a good guy and the new Scarlet Spider? Damian Wayne becoming Robin to Grayson's Batman? Eric Masterson as Thor? Rhodey as Iron Man? Because while people threw fits about all those as well, I thought there were a lot of good stories and characters that came out of it.

And like I said, if it sucks, I won't read it and wait until Peter comes back, which is almost a certainty. But I'm at least going to try and have an open mind and actually decide if it's crap by, you know, reading it and having an informed opinion.

EDIT: Hn...some of my responses accidentally got posted in your text part. Whoops.

[Topher]

Since starting reading Amazing Spider-Man in the 80s, I've only quit twice. First during the Clone Saga, and now 700 has done it again.

[Hambone]

Personally, I don’t think this comic justified the $8.00 price tag. IMO, if Marvel really wanted to sell us on the idea of a “redeemed” Doctor Octopus (even if it’s only intended as a fake out) it should have gone down like this:

Otto receives the Parker life story info dump. Otto, in a rare moment of self-realization, sees all the good Pete’s done in his life and compares it to his own selfish existence. Otto then realizes that he could never hope to replace Peter, and that the world still needs him.

A renewed Octopus, vowing to do one decent thing in his life, rushes Pete’s dying body back to his lab and attempts to transfer his mind back into his own body and vice-versa, unfortunately, Otto is simply too late, nothing is there. Peter Parker is dead. Otto’s mind remains in the Spider-Man body.

Otto has his “dear god, what have I done moment” and decides to try to live up to Pete’s legacy, in tragedy learning—dare I say it—“with great power comes great responsibility.”

Granted, people would still be upset, but at least it sets up the very real possibility that Ock means to be a hero. The story as it is now isn’t very convincing, and the montage of Otto reliving Pete’s life experiences by itself (with fat Otto’s head on Pete’s body) is simply more hilarious then heart tugging.

On to the next story, I didn’t care at all for the “Grandpa Martin is Spider-Man” storyline, just another rehash of the origin through distorted eyes. It’s been done before. It felt like filler, and confusing filler at that. Was this someone we've met in the past? Is it a tease of a future storyline where Grandpa becomes the new Spidey? Does anyone even really care?

I will be the lone naysayer however, and admit that I DID kind of like the Black Cat story. (Aside from overly cartoony art style.) I’m a Pete and Felicia shipper and it was nice to see Felicia treating Pete well, as opposed to her post BND “Oh Spider, why are you getting so upset? I was just using you, LOL.”

I’ll give it 3 out of 10 stars. (One of the stars is for the Marcos Martin holiday cover, which was great.)

[ceroxide]

Eh? Apparently I don't know about Rogue either. She just drains powers last I knew.
But Madame Web is in a coma, last we saw. She's not an issue yet.

Rogue absorbs memories and personality traits when she touches someone, that's why for years she was in constant battle with Ms.Marvel and in the last A+X when she kissed Black Widow she suddenly knew all about Natasha's relationships and secrets, so yeah if she touches/kisses SpOck she'll know everything, and with both of them being in the Avengers now...

I really think Superior has way too many bullets to dodge... Good thing Spidey's so quick on his feet :P

[Jim Thompson]

A renewed Octopus, vowing to do one decent thing in his life, rushes Pete’s dying body back to his lab and attempts to transfer his mind back into his own body and vice-versa, unfortunately, Otto is simply too late, nothing is there. Peter Parker is dead. Otto’s mind remains in the Spider-Man body.

Otto has his “dear god, what have I done moment” and decides to try to live up to Pete’s legacy, in tragedy learning—dare I say it—“with great power comes great responsibility.”

I like that!

[oldschool]

That's what so fun about all this. Who knows what the heck is going to happen? Slott's a continuity buff and Doc Ock's been resurrected before... why not?

Anything can happen.

I'm excited for superior. This is going to be fun.

Exactly how I feel; I really don't know what to expect with Superior. Slott has already promise one more big trick up his sleeve that should hit us early on in the Superior run but----like you, I just think this will be fun. Unlike with the Clone Saga, I think the endgame for Superior ending and Peter returning is already set regardless of what anyone at Marvel says/admits but, in the meantime, this should be a blast!

[David Walton]

Exactly how I feel; I really don't know what to expect with Superior. Slott has already promise one more big trick up his sleeve that should hit us early on in the Superior run but----like you, I just think this will be fun. Unlike with the Clone Saga, I think the endgame for Superior ending and Peter returning is already set regardless of what anyone at Marvel says/admits but, in the meantime, this should be a blast!

You could be right. I didn't enjoy ASM 700, but SSM and AVSM will have more time to build up the concept.

[Raphael Edwards]

Otto receives the Parker life story info dump. Otto, in a rare moment of self-realization, sees all the good Pete’s done in his life and compares it to his own selfish existence. Otto then realizes that he could never hope to replace Peter, and that the world still needs him.

A renewed Octopus, vowing to do one decent thing in his life, rushes Pete’s dying body back to his lab and attempts to transfer his mind back into his own body and vice-versa, unfortunately, Otto is simply too late, nothing is there. Peter Parker is dead. Otto’s mind remains in the Spider-Man body.

Otto has his “dear god, what have I done moment” and decides to try to live up to Pete’s legacy, in tragedy learning—dare I say it—“with great power comes great responsibility.”

It's a bit rushed, and cheesy, but you know what...I'd take this over the fast forward memory montage.

[JGC]

Otto receives the Parker life story info dump. Otto, in a rare moment of self-realization, sees all the good Pete’s done in his life and compares it to his own selfish existence. Otto then realizes that he could never hope to replace Peter, and that the world still needs him.

A renewed Octopus, vowing to do one decent thing in his life, rushes Pete’s dying body back to his lab and attempts to transfer his mind back into his own body and vice-versa, unfortunately, Otto is simply too late, nothing is there. Peter Parker is dead. Otto’s mind remains in the Spider-Man body.

Otto has his “dear god, what have I done moment” and decides to try to live up to Pete’s legacy, in tragedy learning—dare I say it—“with great power comes great responsibilty".

I've read 700 five times now and I still can't bring myself to "like" the ending. Even though Peter went out defeated, your ending would have been better because it would at least prolonged the transformation of Doc Ock from villian to hero and made it a bit more believable.

[oldschool]

You could be right. I didn't enjoy ASM 700, but SSM and AVSM will have more time to build up the concept.

I am glad that Slott has at least earned the benefit of doubt in your eyes and that you will give SSM a fair shake. And, I have to add, I am beyond ecstatic about Yost taking over Avenging----I think that title could easily become the most exciting Spider-Title of 2013!

[Ursalink]

OK, since "Amazing Spider-Man #700" and "Avenging Spider-Man #15.1" are finally out, I can finally talk freely and express what I have inside about what it has happened.

So, you think that because Octopus has seen Peter's life through his eyes that can assure he will stay as a "good guy" and it makes the fact of Peter dying in Octopus' body not so bad, right? Well... WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This story is completely UNACCEPTABLE in Spiderman's world!!!! I can't hold to see Spiderman's third greatest foe (behind the Green Goblin and Venom) taking over his life while the real hero is dead!!! As far as I see, Spiderman's DEAD!!! I won't waste a single cent of my money buying a single issue of this junk called "Superior Spider-Man"!!! Superior?, HAAA!!! Super-Ego I would say!!! I have seen "Avenging Spider-Man #15.1", and all that son of (censored) of Octopus is doing nothing more than just insulting and mocking every single part of Peter Parker's life!!! The preview of "Superior Spider-Man #1", showing his first time in action, is a prefect proof why we can't accept this imbecile as Spiderman. Instead of telling jokes to ease the stress of the battle and analysing the situation before acting, this "Super-fake" Spiderman only insults continually the villains and hit them so strong that he nearly uproot their heads with a kick. (That's something the REAL Spiderman would never do). And the ultimate insult is, when the bad guys pen him and he's the one starting to receive hits, he decides to run away and leave the fight. (If that's not an insult to everything that Spiderman represents, I don't know what it is; because the REAL Spidey would never run away from a fight if there are innocent lives in danger). And not just that, but seeing Octopus (in Peter's body) kissing MJ lustfully... Gosh, I think I'm gonna vomit to my first pap!!!

I have more to say, but I will wait for some replies before posting the next part.

[stillanerd]

Personally, I don’t think this comic justified the $8.00 price tag. IMO, if Marvel really wanted to sell us on the idea of a “redeemed” Doctor Octopus (even if it’s only intended as a fake out) it should have gone down like this:

Otto receives the Parker life story info dump. Otto, in a rare moment of self-realization, sees all the good Pete’s done in his life and compares it to his own selfish existence. Otto then realizes that he could never hope to replace Peter, and that the world still needs him.

A renewed Octopus, vowing to do one decent thing in his life, rushes Pete’s dying body back to his lab and attempts to transfer his mind back into his own body and vice-versa, unfortunately, Otto is simply too late, nothing is there. Peter Parker is dead. Otto’s mind remains in the Spider-Man body.

Otto has his “dear god, what have I done moment” and decides to try to live up to Pete’s legacy, in tragedy learning—dare I say it—“with great power comes great responsibility.”

Granted, people would still be upset, but at least it sets up the very real possibility that Ock means to be a hero. The story as it is now isn’t very convincing, and the montage of Otto reliving Pete’s life experiences by itself (with fat Otto’s head on Pete’s body) is simply more hilarious then heart tugging.

I like that!

Same here. Because as things stand, Doc Ock, in spite of supposedly being reformed, still murdered Peter, did nothing whatsoever to try and save him, and (as Avenging Spider-Man #15.1 showed) isn't the least bit sorry that he killed Peter. And because of this, it's going to be an ever steeper uphill battle to make it readers relate to and sympathize with Doc Ock in Superior Spider-Man.

[CyberHubbs]

I think it being a steep uphill battle is the point. He shouldn't be reformed just because Peter showed him those memories, but they will probably help out in the long run.

We even got to see some of this in AvSM #15.1. It ain't gonna happen overnight, but it will happen. In Otto's own way, of course.

[stillanerd]

I think it being a steep uphill battle is the point. He shouldn't be reformed just because Peter showed him those memories, but they will probably help out in the long run.

We even got to see some of this in AvSM #15.1. It ain't gonna happen overnight, but it will happen. In Otto's own way, of course.

Yes, but I think the problem lies in the fact that, because of the way Otto became Spider-Man, most the readers reading Superior Spider-Man will not want Doc Ock to succeed. They'll want to see him humiliated. They want to see him fail. They want to see his ass get beat every...single...time. Personally, I know that in an eventual battle between the Green Goblin and SpOck, I'm rooting for the Green Goblin instead of the titular character who supposed be new protagonist of the title.