Amazing Spider-Man #700 - Spoilers and Discussion (YOU'VE BEEN WARNED - SPOILERS)

**Spider-Frog** · 01-01-2013, 11:17 AM

I'm guessing that the Mysterious Stranger is either Loki, Ezekiel or Ben Reilly

**Mark_S** · 01-01-2013, 01:09 PM

I wonder how Doc Ock will react when they autopsy his old body? I imagine that SHIELD or some other agency will be read to dissect it to get the arm interface technology.

**refrax5** · 01-01-2013, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Xenon

1) Welcome to four days ago.
2) The assumption that Spider-Man will be victorious is a curious one. While I certainly understand the idea that he will probably be back (though again, nothing's guaranteed), the assumption that he will be victorious is a step too far. Because even if you believe he'll be back, there's nothing to suggest his return will be some glorius return. In ASM (v2) 29, for instance, Mary Jane came back after the stalker had dealt Peter a serious blow by faking her death all those months ago. And how did Peter get Mary Jane back? Was it some grand master plan? Did he outfight the stalker? No. Mary Jane hit the guy with a chair, and then the guy killed himself when he gained Peter Parker's conscience and knew he couldn't kill Peter (though it was obviously in his power). In the end, he still lost.
3) I'm sure five years ago there were thousands of fans that were sure OMD would be gotten rid of within a year too.
4) The fact we might get a story in a year that turns a crappy ending into a mediocre chapter is not an argument for the book. It's an argument for a future book. I don't have a perfect example, but the fact that Blackest Night took the idea that superheroes kept coming back from the dead and turned it into some grand cross-over does not make those earlier pointless death and ressurections not stupid. It's just Geoff Johns taking lemons and making some lemonade.

More Spider-Man related, the fact that JMS told an interesting reconciliation story through the middle part of his run doesn't retroactively make ASM Annual 2001 any less of a stupid book. And the aforementioned ASM(v2) 29 doesn't make ASM(v2) a less stupid story in itself. It just changes the source of malaise from a stupid status quo change to a temporary stupid status quo change and a waste of time.

And that's kinda where I'm at today with ASM 700. Either Peter Parker's death is permanent like they keep trying to insist (hell, how long as Dan been trying to say that 700 is something you can't just undo? Didn't we have a comiccon interview where he said there's no going back from this like..a year ago?) or they're just jerking me around and wasting issues that they could using to tell Spider-Man stories instead of Doc Ock ones. Yeah, I get that sometimes it can be fun to do some off-the-wall things now and then. I mean, I enjoyed Identity Crisis well enough. But for me, and this is of course strictly based on my opinion of the plot they're presenting, Doc Ock running around as Spider-Man holds no interest to me. So either way it screws everything up.

Uh, sorry. I'm not on here every day.

And the marriage is a different story. It is completely ludicrous to assume that Otto Octavius will remain Spider-Man permanently. It just won't happen. I don't care if Marvel says it's permanent. Comic companies say that all the time. They said the same thing about Cap, about Ben Reilly, about Hawkeye's death, about Magneto's death, etc.

And I doubt his return will be much like Mary Jane's. Apples and oranges. When Marvel brings Peter back, it's going to be a big story.

And while I'm not sure how much Octo-Spidey interests me, like I said, there have been plenty of dumb stories with my favorite characters over the years. Saying it "screws everything up" seems pretty hyperbolic. Like I said, worst case scenario, it's one of those weird chapters in a character's history. Most long-running superhero characters have them.

If someone honestly thinks that Peter Parker is gone forever, I don't know what to say.

**Farmernudie** · 01-01-2013, 02:10 PM

Just got around to reading this...although as many did, i had already heard about the "outcome" because of spidey's leaking problem.

Some clunky dialog between Ock and Mary Jane stood out. Just wow.

The other thing is, after just reading The Death of Ultimate Spider-Man Omnibus in December, which brought a tear to my eye,....i must say the real universe death (not that it will last) was much less heroic, and much more just "helpless". I couldn't help but think back to OMD when no one could help Peter with a bullet (but at least he "tried" in the story to seek help)...here we get Peter not asking Avengers or anyone (FF) for help, tho this body transfer problem isn't the oddest thing at all, for those teams to deal with or have dealt with. Obviously it was not meant to be, to have him be helped in either story.

Regardless, compared to the other "death" story, this one wasn't "touching" at all. Peter just gives up, has no options, and let's an evil villain be him and all that involves and how it will "touch" others. I understand they share memories, but i am not sure how Doc Ock, after the sum total of this life time/continuity in comics can become a guy who sorta wants to be responsible in such few frames. Nor why i would care, i mean, if this is just an "Arc" (which it will end up being just a LONG arc at most- with a title change) that is fine, and there is some sort of interest there as an "Arc" i suppose. But in the long run, as they want us to believe, that this IS spider-man, that is laughable...Octopus just isn't The Spider...anymore that "relaunching" Invisible Woman as Wolverine would be that swell in the long run. It may be interesting short term, but long term, they aren't that character, besides the fact it can lead to some icky situations to put it mildly.

Oh well, at least i can re-read Ultimate Spider-Man again and witness a more touching story. I just prefer that THIS Peter Parker, my favorite, that got me into comics eons ago, which is the core Spidey, got handled in a more deserving way for the hero he is to me, and has been, for decades prior. Just my two cents.

**Xenon** · 01-01-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by refrax5

Uh, sorry. I'm not on here every day.

The point, good sir, is that responding to a four day old moment in time in the world of evolving opinion is a little weird. Maybe if it was the only thing I posted, but, well, heh. We both know that ain't true.

And the marriage is a different story. It is completely ludicrous to assume that Otto Octavius will remain Spider-Man permanently. It just won't happen. I don't care if Marvel says it's permanent. Comic companies say that all the time. They said the same thing about Cap, about Ben Reilly, about Hawkeye's death, about Magneto's death, etc.

And I doubt his return will be much like Mary Jane's. Apples and oranges. When Marvel brings Peter back, it's going to be a big story.

And while I'm not sure how much Octo-Spidey interests me, like I said, there have been plenty of dumb stories with my favorite characters over the years. Saying it "screws everything up" seems pretty hyperbolic. Like I said, worst case scenario, it's one of those weird chapters in a character's history. Most long-running superhero characters have them.

If someone honestly thinks that Peter Parker is gone forever, I don't know what to say.

1) Just saying "it's different' over and over isn't an argument, it's blind faith. You're making a lot of assumptions about the way things will go down based on....well, nothing. Again, even though the marriage was known to be a target for a long time, I doubt anyone thought magic deal with the notDevil was going to be the method of that dissolution or that it would be just a pile of garbage. You're right that this _could_ be different. Or it could be the same. You simply don't know. Making predictions is fine, but today, none of those things exist. And I'm posting today.
2) Oh, it screws everything up, believe you me. It's not the first thing to screw everything up. It probably won't be the last , sadly. They may later on be able to FIX everything they screwed up. But unless they one day just ignore it and pull a Dallas, it'll have impact.
3) I am once again amazed at comic fans acceptance of bad things and other things they don't like. This is why this kind of crap keeps happening.

**Majinoaw** · 01-01-2013, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Xenon

The point, good sir, is that responding to a four day old moment in time in the world of evolving opinion is a little weird. Maybe if it was the only thing I posted, but, well, heh. We both know that ain't true.

1) Just saying "it's different' over and over isn't an argument, it's blind faith. You're making a lot of assumptions about the way things will go down based on....well, nothing. Again, even though the marriage was known to be a target for a long time, I doubt anyone thought magic deal with the notDevil was going to be the method of that dissolution or that it would be just a pile of garbage. You're right that this _could_ be different. Or it could be the same. You simply don't know. Making predictions is fine, but today, none of those things exist. And I'm posting today.
2) Oh, it screws everything up, believe you me. It's not the first thing to screw everything up. It probably won't be the last , sadly. They may later on be able to FIX everything they screwed up. But unless they one day just ignore it and pull a Dallas, it'll have impact.
3) I am once again amazed at comic fans acceptance of bad things and other things they don't like. This is why this kind of crap keeps happening.

I wonder if Peter is in hell, what do you think.

**Mark_S** · 01-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Majinoaw

I wonder if Peter is in hell, what do you think.

Limbo or purgatory.

**Majinoaw** · 01-01-2013, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

Limbo or purgatory.

Yeah. He's going heavy into the mystic realm to get out of this one. Or they might do some time travelling ish to resolve it. Truly this is an interesting time to read Spider-man. Now all they need to do is add.............CARDIAC.

**Farmernudie** · 01-01-2013, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mark_S

Limbo or purgatory.

No limbo.

I think we still have Peter deep inside of Ock and he just doesn't know it yet.

**Majinoaw** · 01-01-2013, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Farmernudie

No limbo.

I think we still have Peter deep inside of Ock and he just doesn't know it yet.

How does Cardiac fit into all of it though?

**Farmernudie** · 01-01-2013, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Majinoaw

How does Cardiac fit into all of it though?

lol

...i don't think there's room for anyone else to be inside of Pete too.

Maybe Cardiac can be inside of someone else who isn't taken already...maybe Carrion or Firestar or someone less popular right now...?

Baby steps here :)

**RyanParkerMan** · 01-01-2013, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by refrax5

Uh, sorry. I'm not on here every day.

And the marriage is a different story. It is completely ludicrous to assume that Otto Octavius will remain Spider-Man permanently. It just won't happen. I don't care if Marvel says it's permanent. Comic companies say that all the time. They said the same thing about Cap, about Ben Reilly, about Hawkeye's death, about Magneto's death, etc.

And I doubt his return will be much like Mary Jane's. Apples and oranges. When Marvel brings Peter back, it's going to be a big story.

And while I'm not sure how much Octo-Spidey interests me, like I said, there have been plenty of dumb stories with my favorite characters over the years. Saying it "screws everything up" seems pretty hyperbolic. Like I said, worst case scenario, it's one of those weird chapters in a character's history. Most long-running superhero characters have them.

If someone honestly thinks that Peter Parker is gone forever, I don't know what to say.

Exactly correct.

**USERNAME TAKEN** · 01-02-2013, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by refrax5

Uh, sorry. I'm not on here every day.

And the marriage is a different story. It is completely ludicrous to assume that Otto Octavius will remain Spider-Man permanently. It just won't happen. I don't care if Marvel says it's permanent. Comic companies say that all the time. They said the same thing about Cap, about Ben Reilly, about Hawkeye's death, about Magneto's death, etc.

And I doubt his return will be much like Mary Jane's. Apples and oranges. When Marvel brings Peter back, it's going to be a big story.

And while I'm not sure how much Octo-Spidey interests me, like I said, there have been plenty of dumb stories with my favorite characters over the years. Saying it "screws everything up" seems pretty hyperbolic. Like I said, worst case scenario, it's one of those weird chapters in a character's history. Most long-running superhero characters have them.
If someone honestly thinks that Peter Parker is gone forever, I don't know what to say.

The bolded part I agree with 100%.

It's just one of those weird situations that happens with long running superhero titles.

There's nothing in the story that suggests permanence. Even Parker's mind dump at the end of the issue pretty much guarantees that Parker will be restored eventually.