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  1. #316
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaggyB View Post
    yep... has been for a while though. its mainly because it was the #300 not for artistic perfection though.
    Perfection or not, McFarlane's image clearly struck a chord. I think it's the perfect storm, the moment when the stars aligned and we got Todd McFarlane and Venom in one of the best ASM issues ever.

    That's the image they use for the 40 Years of ASM DVD-Rom collection.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  2. #317
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-drummer View Post
    all i got to say about this. remember during after OMD Joey Q, Dan Slott, Steve wacker, tom brevoort ext said "we did OMD cause we dont wan't see Peter Parker be a old man and die, cause no fans wants to read that story" and in 5 SHORT YEARS LATER HE'S A OLD MAN AND DEAD!
    LOL! I hadn't thought of that.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  3. #318
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capuga View Post
    A well written review on multiversitycomics.com. Sums up some of my problems with the issue:

    http://multiversitycomics.com/review...pider-man-700/
    Yeah this review is pretty spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Technically, Peter didn't pull a victory 'at great cost.' He had already lost at this point, and it was a last ditch effort to make something of his defeat. But it wasn't like he voluntarily relinquished his life.
    The insight of Peter's great cost not really being there is an important thought I hadn't thought of.


    I'm not opposed to the idea that Peter would transform Ock by virtue of who he is, but I wasn't thrilled with the execution.

    For one thing, I tend to read comics to see the hero pull off a big victory, so the idea of Pete losing his life to Ock doesn't feel right, even though I felt prepared for that possibility going in.

    It especially felt off for a fifty year celebration.

    I'm not saying I won't ever come around. But right now, I really don't feel like reading about Ock's greatest triumph while he poses as Peter Parker for two years. Especially since I can't even read about Peter in USM.
    Your whole post is pretty close to me. It doesn't really matter what Ock does, he's still a mass murderer, and the only reason we're seeing him now, the only "good things" he can do are the result of him murdering Peter Parker and usurping his life.

    I'm also starting to question the idea of his conversion, anyway. Doc Ock already had those memories, so what did Peter actually do, make him experience them? And if that's all it is, does that mean Peter is the way he is just because of Aunt May and Uncle Ben? That he had no choice in the matter? I find this questionable at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsg2295 View Post
    I dont think he is going to have triumph.....Maybe wishful thinking on my part...I think he is going to fail.....Underneath he is still Doc Ock....if he had wanted to redefine himself in the past he could have done it. One thing comes to mind.....wear armor on your face....or a force field around it....would have saved him a few punches to the visage.
    This post is almost perfect right. It IS wishful thinking and he COULD have redefined himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalIronFist View Post
    I think my main problems with it are not only that Marvel's best character is gone and it happened in a really inglorious way, but also now that the new series is entirely based on a premise I find really dumb even when it's done for only an arc...body switching. Those stories are the worst.
    This. There's a reason Body Switching stories are short lived affairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I think it would have changed the tone significantly if Peter had suddenly realized why Ock was who he is, and said, "Look, I had my shot, and I don't regret it, and now I'm giving you a chance to make good on your mistakes."

    Of course, you'd still have the problem of Pete handing over his life to a guy when he's not sure how it will turn out, and I don't see any way around that.

    I think I'd have been more impressed with the story if Pete had realized he needed to kill Ock and stuck with it, as that seems like the moral choice when so many innocents are involved.

    I mean, it's almost like handing over the nuclear football to Putin as a gesture of goodwill.
    Damn son. You're on a roll. Because this post is perfect. You want to give Peter Parker growth, give him the stones to actually do what is necessary for once. For once being the key, don't turn him into a psycho vigilante killer. Just the willpower to do what is necessary when it's absolutely necessary. And they sort of did that...before they undermiend it with armor from nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsg2295 View Post
    The key being is that you wrote "seems".....We dont know what is going to really happen for a year......I just dont see Spock triumphing.....Especially someone as abrasive as Spock seems to be.
    I'm beginning to notice a trend that everyone who's ok with this is riding entirely on it being a planned temporary thing. With many comparisons to Knightfall. But that's never been the signals they've been sending.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    Oh, is that all? 'Cause we're talking about mad scientists who wear metal octopus arms and genius man-childs dressed up like spiders. That kind of stuff simply comes with the territory.
    It doesn't have to.


    I have no idea what you're talking about there. But Slott has also had MJ play a big role in Spider-Island, one of -- if not the -- best stories in his current run. And their moment at the end of that arc with the ESB was pretty damn beautiful. So I think he appreciates MJ as a character, even if he's not giving you everything you want on a silver platter. Does he like to tease like with the roommates thing? Sure. But I think it's just teasing and in no way supposed to be from some place of animosity. We're talking about a writer who is pretty fan-friendly, and has had long, patient talks with readers who sought him out at conventions just to yell at him for a story he didn't even do.

    I don't think he's your enemy.
    1) Chameleon. Michelle. They've had this problem before. They had to hastily backpedal the implications out of that scene.
    2) Until I read Brand New Day, I was inclined to agree with your line of thinking. But he does it too much and he does it too often for me to pass it off as a good-natured tease. It's unwise teasing even in the best case, and there's a limit to how much is acceptable. At a certain point the repeated prodding stops being an accident, it stops being all in good fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I didn't enjoy the story's climax, and I did feel the execution was off. There's the added complication that ASM's sendoff issue seems more concerned with setting up Superior Spider-Man than celebrating Pete.

    I don't think it 'reeks of fan-fic.' Slott swung for the fences here, and it fell flat for me personally. But a lot of people feel like it's the best thing that's happened in years, so there you have it.
    Yea to the first paragraph, but I'm a little harsher on the second. The trope of the main character getting replaced by the character of the author's choosing (usually a Mary Sue) is like the hallmark of fanfiction. Mind you, I'm treating this story just as it is, without the certainty that Peter will come back, but as it is now, to me, it reads like a Doc Ock fanfic. In the end our great hero falls to the even greater Doctor Octopus who takes over his life and gets the babe and is going to be better in every way. He'll be SUPERIOR!

    Ick. Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by JGC View Post
    From one 'biggest Spidey fan' to another, I gotta agree with you here.. To some degree. While I have enjoyed Slott's over-arching Doc Ock story since issue #600, I think #698 was his best work. It was a killer opening act for "Dying Wish", which left no where to go but down. I was emotional reading #700 because I was scared shitless that Peter Parker was going to die, and when he did I felt hollow.
    I can agree with most of this.




    I hope you're right. I honestly have no desire to read another Spider-title where the hero is out for redemption. We have Venom and Scarlet Spider for that. I will pick up Superior Spider-Man to see where Slott takes this.
    Then don't you hope he's wrong? A hero trying to overcome his massive piles of guilt sounds like redemption story to me. A hopeless redemption story in the case of Doc Ock since he's taken over Peter Parker's body and killed him to do it, but an attempt at a redemption story anyway.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

  4. #319
    Comic Fanboy Spidey_Legend's Avatar
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    I read the issue and I have to say I'm dissapointed with the outcame. Sorry, but I don't like someone else besides Peter Parker being Spider-Man and this is not going to be an exception. Drop Amazing when Ben Reilly takes the mantle and did it with Ultimate after Bendis killed him. So, bye by Spider-Man, when Peter returns as Spidey, you will see me again.

  5. #320
    Member Earmites's Avatar
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    I predict that the power of love will bring back Peter Parker from the dead.

    Worked for Aunt May.
    The world was blessedly free of honest men and wonderfully full of people who believed they could tell the difference between an honest man and a crook. -Terry Pratchett

  6. #321
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    While I haven't read any of the Ultimate comics, I've heard that Miles have earned the right to be Spider-Man. However Otto hasn't yet since he killed Peter & hi-jacked his life. While Pete may have given him a personality makeover, it's going to be a while until he's worthy of being called Spider-Man.

  7. #322
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    May will find out what happened and sell her marriage with John Jonah Jameson Sr. to Mephisto in order to save Peter.

  8. #323
    The curious one.
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    Now that Doc Ock is Spider Ock I wonder if he will go after some supervillains more than others? Anyone he has a grudge against? Or any heroine he'd try to seduce? He has been around a long while and I'm sure there's a list of enemies in his warped mind.

  9. #324
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Perhaps we'll see...The Superior Six?

    I wonder if anyone's discussed the ramifications for Sandman yet, who had a much more organic transition from crime to honest living and reverted to type.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  10. #325
    I wanna hear you scream Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earmites View Post
    I predict that the power of love will bring back Peter Parker from the dead.

    Worked for Aunt May.
    That wasn't Peter who died, it was a genetically altered actor!

    (Oh wait, different way Aunt May didn't die!)
    The monster saved them all. And in their fear, they betrayed him. As they always have. As they always will.

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  11. #326
    Senior Member Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-drummer View Post
    all i got to say about this. remember during after OMD Joey Q, Dan Slott, Steve wacker, tom brevoort ext said "we did OMD cause we dont wan't see Peter Parker be a old man and die, cause no fans wants to read that story" and in 5 SHORT YEARS LATER HE'S A OLD MAN AND DEAD!
    Heh.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Perhaps we'll see...The Superior Six?

    I wonder if anyone's discussed the ramifications for Sandman yet, who had a much more organic transition from crime to honest living and reverted to type.
    I don't see how this has any ramifications for him. He had his organic transition from crime to honest living, but then somebody said "**** character growth" and made him a bad guy again.
    When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.-C.S.Lewis

  12. #327
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    Just wondering how is Superior Spider-Man easier to pick up and relatable for new readers?

    Plus the whole MJ/Ock Slott things don't really make it good reading for younger readers.

  13. #328

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    Just want to share few pics of my copy ASM 700 sign by Dan Slott and Stepanie Buscema. Got it sign Dec. 27, 2012 6:15PM EST, met some great people while waiting on line. Really enjoy the short Black Cat story.

  14. #329
    Sad Hawkguy in the snow CyberHubbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZetaOmega0 View Post
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    Just want to share few pics of my copy ASM 700 sign by Dan Slott and Stepanie Buscema. Got it sign Dec. 27, 2012 6:15PM EST, met some great people while waiting on line. Really enjoy the short Black Cat story.
    Very cool. I need some of these folks to come sign books here in Texas. Mainly so I can kidnap Dan Slott and we go on a cross-country caper while being chased by Stephen Wacker who is trying to get the next issue of Superior Spider-Man out on time. He would be dressed like Boss Hog and Slott and I would be driving the General Lee.

    Every street would also end with a ramp.
    I know Kevin Nichols through a guy that knows a gal. Small world!

    If nihilism didn't take some delight in destruction one might suspect nihilists were an unnaturally morbid sort.
    -Theophilus

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHubbs View Post
    Very cool. I need some of these folks to come sign books here in Texas. Mainly so I can kidnap Dan Slott and we go on a cross-country caper while being chased by Stephen Wacker who is trying to get the next issue of Superior Spider-Man out on time. He would be dressed like Boss Hog and Slott and I would be driving the General Lee.

    Every street would also end with a ramp.
    Did you go to the Scarlet Spider signing in Houston?

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