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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    I do think it's ridiculous that some handwave uniting the mutant species like it would have happened regardless.
    Yeah He united 200 people under him in a time where their existence was being questioned and they could have been wiped out. I'm not handwaving it, just because you do a few good deeds does not excuse you from being a terrible person. Cyclops set up no checks and balances and he was almost always the sole one giving orders for the population. He pretty much started a Dictatorship.

  2. #392
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desean101101 View Post
    Yeah He united 200 people under him in a time where their existence was being questioned and they could have been wiped out. I'm not handwaving it, just because you do a few good deeds does not excuse you from being a terrible person. Cyclops set up no checks and balances and he was almost always the sole one giving orders for the population. He pretty much started a Dictatorship.
    How was he a dictator? Seriously I don't agree with those who think the guy infallible but I really don't see how he was a dictator. He was the sole one giving orders, but rarely did anyone have a problem with them.

    I mean when Wolverine wanted to take a bunch of valuable X men and split, not only did he let it happen (when he strongly disagreed with it), he gave them a freaking jet. Also, when Logan initially took issue with how Scott was running things, the first thing scott did was offer to set up a vote. Dictators aren't really a fan of elections.

  3. #393
    MXAAGVNIEETRO were right The Black Guardian's Avatar
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    Before Schism, he kept telling everybody that he "had no plan" and was just winging it. That's like the opposite of dictator. However, there were instance, like the "justice system" response to Lois London and Illyana, which makes no sense when compared to Toad and Masque's and their friends' continuing acts of terrorism against Utopia without punishment.

    However, in Schism, he only changed and let Wolverine leave after being beaten down. Before that, his entire "argument" was that all the kids had to be soldiers in his Army regardless of how they felt about it. Heck, and some even had to give up what they wanted as a kind of barter (Idie can go, but only if Laurie stays, which was BS).
    Last edited by The Black Guardian; 01-08-2013 at 06:51 AM.
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  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by finfangfool View Post
    Most comic book characters have a defining characteristic, or hopefully several. Iron Man struggled with Alcoholism. Superman's a boyscout. Guy Gardner's a d##k. The Thing won't shut up about Yancy Street or his sweet aunt Petunia. Wolverine used to be a loner who couldn't control his rage, but could always be counted on when the chips were down. That character doesn't exist anymore. A few things remain. His claws. His haircut (what the hell's up with that anyway, at least the Beast had genetic tinkering as an excuse). His healing factor (though turned up to 11). And spending more time around jailbait mutant girls than seems appropriate to anyone other than apologist Wolverine fans (and even some of you). There are critcisms you could make of any X-character in existence (and that's half of what this board is about). And most of them do get beaten into the ground.

    The only thing one-note is posters like you and Desean who can't seem to handle the fact that for once in the last 30 years the spotlight isn't on your favorite character (despite them making him headmaster of the school), and they seem to be focusing on Cyclops and actually making him interesting to read (something nobody, including Claremont, could seem to do on a regular basis in the last 50 years of his existence). Get over it. He's still the "cool" character with the "bad ass" claws spouting "bub" and telling everyone who'll listen how he's the best there is yada yada yada. This Cyclops phase will pass, and it'll probably be another 10 years before someone else comes to prominence temporarily to outshine your golden boy. Either try and enjoy the change of pace, or just read WatXM or any of the other 12 books featuring Wolverine and try to block it out.
    I'm not a Wolverine Apologist, I just can accept that Wolverine is not a perfect person and he screws up badly sometimes but he tries to make things right for all the bad he has done in his life. Its why he throws himself into superheriocs, he has a bit of a Martyr complex in that if he is the one that fights and bleeds and is injured to fight than thats one less innocent or Young one getting caught up in the mess and thats why I like him. He doesn't have to be Dark for me to like him, he doesn't need to take orders for me to like him, he respects people and takes their opinions in consideration.

    Its not a critisism if all you keep saying about a character is that he is terrible and a Pedophile. And What? We are just mad the Spotlight is on Cyclops for like a a decade almost now and really the only interesting things that happened is that Cyclops cheated on his wife again. They pretty much made the whole Mutant race a lapdog to Him to try and make him stand out as the most capable man in the room. I remember a time in X-men where it wasn't the Wolverine Show or the Cyclops show but the X-men show in which everyone got a chance to shine in the book and stand out and it wasn't at the Cost of characterization of other members of the X-men. Wolverine and the X-men is trying to show that the X-men is not just a Paramilitary force for good, they are a Military Academy in which they train their people to be able to fight and learn so they can protect themselves but they should not just be limited to the X-men grounds, They should be able to connect with Humans and interact with Humans and Interbreed.

    Cyclops is always as cool as the Women he has on his arm, Is it any coincidence that as he starts sleeping with Emma Frost she becomes nicer and more accepting and He in turn takes on more and more of her personality. He drains he partners of everything interesting about them and leaves them a Shell of their former selves, He is an emotional vampire. I hope the Cyclops faze passes so we can have actual Villians again in the X-universe who were Mutants because its really grating on my nerves that The Have to turn Cyclops against most of the Marvel universe to have a compelling villian in the world.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    How was he a dictator? Seriously I don't agree with those who think the guy infallible but I really don't see how he was a dictator. He was the sole one giving orders, but rarely did anyone have a problem with them.

    I mean when Wolverine wanted to take a bunch of valuable X men and split, not only did he let it happen (when he strongly disagreed with it), he gave them a freaking jet. Also, when Logan initially took issue with how Scott was running things, the first thing scott did was offer to set up a vote. Dictators aren't really a fan of elections.
    Dictators have been Elected before . Hitler was elected by the People, he just consolidated enough power to never to be removed out of Office. The people were so blind in their trust of him they never saw the building of their own demise. Their was justice system on Utopia, their was only Cyclops word. Just because he payed the people lip service to sedate them doesn't change the fact he never did anything to spread out his power.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Before Schism, he kept telling everybody that he "had no plan" and was just winging it. That's like the opposite of dictator. However, there were instance, like the "justice system" response to Lois London and Illyana, which makes no sense when compared to Toad and Masque's and their friends' continuing acts of terrorism against Utopia without punishment.

    However, in Schism, he only changed and let Wolverine leave after being beaten down. Before that, his entire "argument" was that all the kids had to be soldiers in his Army regardless of how they felt about it. Heck, and some even had to give up what they wanted as a kind of barter (Idie can go, but only if Laurie stays, which was BS).
    Fair points. I do agree with what you said on Schism, but I still think the fact remains that when he was thinking clearly (not dealing with super sentinels / wolverine's threat to bomb utopia / their whole argument) he let Logan go and gave him a jet to leave in. Just saying the guy wasn't a dictator.

    But on the kids fighting thing, I think he just meant in that situation they had to be soldiers. Other than that I still think he would have left the choice up to them. That's just me though, I know there's an argument to be made to the contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desean101101 View Post
    Dictators have been Elected before . Hitler was elected by the People, he just consolidated enough power to never to be removed out of Office. The people were so blind in their trust of him they never saw the building of their own demise. Their was justice system on Utopia, their was only Cyclops word. Just because he payed the people lip service to sedate them doesn't change the fact he never did anything to spread out his power.
    By definition, Hitler was not a dictator when he was elected to power. He became a dictator once he removed all term limits and started suppressing / eliminating any potential threats to his leadership.

    When Logan questioned Scott's leadership, Scott offered a vote. When that didn't work, he let him take a handful of highly valuable X men as well as a jet.

    When people questioned Hitler's leadership, they were quickly discredited and/or arrested.

    So again, scott was not a dictator. I agree that Utopia didn't have a defined government, but that doesn't mean Scott had absolute power over the actions of the X-men and those who lived in Utopia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desean101101 View Post
    I remember a time in X-men where it wasn't the Wolverine Show or the Cyclops show but the X-men show in which everyone got a chance to shine in the book and stand out and it wasn't at the Cost of characterization of other members of the X-men.
    This however is something I absolutely agree with.
    Last edited by Whip Whirlwind; 01-08-2013 at 07:18 AM.

  7. #397
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    Ooh, yay. More Cyclops is Hitler arguments.

  8. #398
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    Post deleted
    Last edited by godzilla2099; 01-08-2013 at 08:40 AM. Reason: *Misread the comment*

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Ooh, yay. More Cyclops is Hitler arguments.
    It's okay, I'm sure Pol Pot arguments will be all the rage soon enough.

  10. #400
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    iron fist called him mussolini after cyclops killed his baby dragon, so i think you should stick with that.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcesX1X View Post
    iron fist called him mussolini after cyclops killed his baby dragon, so i think you should stick with that.
    He didn't kill the baby dragon. Just wounded it.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthCyclopsRLZ View Post
    We know damn well Wolverine didn't molest the girls. Still, his various partnerships with (much) younger, (very) impressionable girls would be... somewhat frowned upon in RL. F*** this, folks would totally call the cops on him.
    A lot of victims don't report their sexual abuse, even more so when the predator is an influential figure in their community. Also a lot of pedophiles don't molest the children their around, they simple think about it all the time

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Guardian View Post
    Before Schism, he kept telling everybody that he "had no plan" and was just winging it. That's like the opposite of dictator. However, there were instance, like the "justice system" response to Lois London and Illyana, which makes no sense when compared to Toad and Masque's and their friends' continuing acts of terrorism against Utopia without punishment.

    However, in Schism, he only changed and let Wolverine leave after being beaten down. Before that, his entire "argument" was that all the kids had to be soldiers in his Army regardless of how they felt about it. Heck, and some even had to give up what they wanted as a kind of barter (Idie can go, but only if Laurie stays, which was BS).
    Dude he never said that all the kids need to be soldiers. In fact during Schism{when the robot was attacking} he told all the kids they were free to run if they wanted to. They volunteered to fight with him.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla2099 View Post
    He didn't kill the baby dragon. Just wounded it.
    I always wondered. If he did kill the dragon, would that have made him the next Iron Fist?

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whip Whirlwind View Post
    It's okay, I'm sure Pol Pot arguments will be all the rage soon enough.
    I doubt the people dumb enough to think Cyclops is a dictator even know who Pol Pot is.

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