The online behavior of Comic Book Professionals

[Home made ectoplasm]

I swear some people enjoy being butthurt.

[Majinoaw]

I disagree. Nitpicking every detail of an issue including making up potential rape cases, spending time telling an Editor how they should act online, calling people trollish.... these are all examples of users continuing to behave in ways that spark such behavior.

Its a circle, not a line.

That whole rape discussion made me ill. Posters, you took this stuff waaaaaaay too far. not editorial... but the posters did who labeled this as such. It was a disgusting display.

Are you implying I did this? When did this happen?

In college I think you studied "Pre-Mad"

SW

I think you need to make sure that the Cardiac series launches in August.

I swear some people enjoy being butthurt.

Not me. i actually won. This should be the year of the Majin. Cardiac is coming back and the Spider-Man stories are fresh and as enjoyable as ever. It might be time for me to retire.

[Kevin Nichols]

If a 49ers fan got on a message board to vent after the loss, I wouldn't expect the players to show up there and mock him for not knowing anything about what really happens.
I also wouldn't expect anybody on the management side to show up there and start defending the team either. It's just not generally accepted practice. And in fact, when someone representing the company does fire off at discontent fans, they get publicly reprimanded for it.

I get that it may be different within comic books since the niche is so small, and people's buying habits are what they are. But there is still a clear difference, in my opinion.

And again, even within comics, there are dozens of creators with online presences, all of whom receive criticism at some point or another online. They don't all bust in here though and start calling the fans names.

This happens a good bit though. When the Packers lost to the Seahawks this year because of that lousy interception call, there were tons of sports professionals telling fans that they didn't understand the rules and so they shouldn't be upset.

On Leno the other night, Charles Barkley said that Dwight Howard's father needs to "shut the hell up" because he's not involved in the game and doesn't know what's going on.

People are going to say what they are going to say. If you find it insulting, don't listen. Or go on being insulted, whatever floats your boat. However, you shouldn't expect to be able to change someone else's behavior.

[The Batman]

Are you implying I did this? When did this happen?

In college I think you studied "Pre-Mad"

SW

Sad trombone....

[Mister Mets]

If a 49ers fan got on a message board to vent after the loss, I wouldn't expect the players to show up there and mock him for not knowing anything about what really happens.
I also wouldn't expect anybody on the management side to show up there and start defending the team either. It's just not generally accepted practice. And in fact, when someone representing the company does fire off at discontent fans, they get publicly reprimanded for it.

I get that it may be different within comic books since the niche is so small, and people's buying habits are what they are. But there is still a clear difference, in my opinion.

And again, even within comics, there are dozens of creators with online presences, all of whom receive criticism at some point or another online. They don't all bust in here though and start calling the fans names.

I don't know if the football thing is a good example, because we're not talking about losers. Many of the arguments are about whether the win could have been bigger.

It's a great question, and it's where the real tension lies.

Is CBR Boards a forum for fans to talk comics, or do they need to walk on eggshells lest they insult a writer's feelings?

So should writers and editors walk on eggshells to avoid insulting the feelings of fans?

[Mister Mets]

I see Gail's point (thank you for posting that.) I imagine that would be like Chris Claremont suddenly sitting at the lunch table that you and your friends are using and suddenly arguing that everyone is being unfair with their unfiltered and private conversations about his work. But this stuff is not private, its a public forum. My disconnect is that the community has always had a long history of interaction between fans and creators that stemmed from the early days of letter pages, to conventions and now message boards. Maybe the best option is for creators to be more absent from the boards? I still see no problem with them giving a snarky response to a rude post-- that was birthed the day we had creator panels at conventions.

These aren't unfiltered private conversations. This is stuff we're all putting up for public consumption. That comes with a higher responsibility on certain things. There's more of an obligation to get the facts right (it's often easy to google) and to express yourself in a clear manner.

[Schmed]

That whole rape discussion made me ill. Posters, you took this stuff waaaaaaay too far. not editorial... but the posters did who labeled this as such. It was a disgusting display.

It really was. QFT.

[Kevin Nichols]

It really was. QFT.

QFT isn't a word. Idiot!

[ShaggyB]

But . . . that is a line . . . since the behavior continues you still get (2) people "telling an Editor how they should act online" and (3) calling people trollish . . . That's not a circle. i.e. if it did indeed cease, people would no longer be claiming (2) or (3).

Thats a circle.

If one constantly repeats step 1 and it leads to step 2, which leads to step 3.... and that in turn leads back to step 1... thats a circle. Think of it like a globe. While you are on the line it looks linear, yet the world you trace is circular.

And in regards to (1) fans keep picking apart comic books - You think that should change? Fans should only focus on positives? Simply, if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

Not at all, but I do think the way its done at times breeds the reactions that are being complained about in this thread.

[charlesthehammer]

So should writers and editors walk on eggshells to avoid insulting a writer's feelings?

I assume you mean fans, but it generally doesn't work that way as the fan puts nothing up to criticize, while the writer and editors do. Unless they start posting fan fiction, then by all means, judge away.

That whole rape discussion made me ill. Posters, you took this stuff waaaaaaay too far. not editorial... but the posters did who labeled this as such. It was a disgusting display.

Yeah, I thought about just giving up on the site after that thing. \

As a former McDonalds employee/assistant manager.... I would give back rudeness to overly rude customers. Hell I watched my boss tell someone that the sign says 1 million served and that he didnt need that customers business.

Funny enough the guy was back the next weekend buying the same big mac.

Funnily enough I have worked at McDonalds (and friends have worked retail.) and this is honestly my exact opposite experience. I am sure you have heard the mantra "The customer is always right" which is a big thing in retail and fast food joints. They will bend over backwards to accommodate a customer so much that we actually had a customer that we knew would come in and lie about getting her food wrong to get more free food. She did this because she knew we could do nothing about it. Its been a while but I doubt anythings changed on that front.

[Ari Gold]

Thats a circle.

If one constantly repeats step 1 and it leads to step 2, which leads to step 3.... and that in turn leads back to step 1... thats a circle. Think of it like a globe. While you are on the line it looks linear, yet the world you trace is circular.

Not at all, but I do think the way its done at times breeds the reactions that are being complained about in this thread.

But as you said . . . there's nothing wrong with repeating Step 1. Step 1 is a part of being a comic book message board, sometimes there will be things you like, and sometimes there will be things you don't like.

And if there's nothing wrong with that, which you appear to agree with, it shouldn't constantly be met with ridicule and belittlement from the creators.

EDIT: I think the problem seems to be that you're working from a premise that Mr. Wacker and/or Slott are provoked to respond a certain way by how the readers/fans address them.

This is confusing to me because I have been in several conversations where posters are talking among themselves and Mr. Wacker drops in and begins mocking a poster for seemingly no reason other than that poster expressed an opinion negative of Marvel.

You then seem to suggest that since Mr. Wacker is a proud employee of Marvel, any time a fan criticizes it, it is like a personal affront and he deserves the right to respond in kind.

And it is this level of interaction that I wish would change on the Boards. Where users should be free to post how they feel about a particular direction without expecting some childish response calling them names and not addressing their actual points of criticism.

P.S. I like how moderators can edit their own messages and don't get the little "Last edited" note at the bottom.

[Ari Gold]

I swear some people enjoy being butthurt.

This guy's funny.

This happens a good bit though. When the Packers lost to the Seahawks this year because of that lousy interception call, there were tons of sports professionals telling fans that they didn't understand the rules and so they shouldn't be upset.

I could be wrong. I certainly don't scour every NFL message board. Did you come across all that many where sports professionals were mocking fans for not understanding the rules?

On Leno the other night, Charles Barkley said that Dwight Howard's father needs to "shut the hell up" because he's not involved in the game and doesn't know what's going on.

And if Mr. Wacker or Mr. Slott wanted to get on Jimmy Kimmel and make fun of the fans, we'd have a comparable situation . . . Or when Charles Barkley shows up in the CBR NBA thread b/c when someone says Shaq sucks as a commentator. But I don't see the relevance to Barkley's Leno segment and the situation we're discussing here.

People are going to say what they are going to say. If you find it insulting, don't listen. Or go on being insulted, whatever floats your boat. However, you shouldn't expect to be able to change someone else's behavior.

. . . It's only insulting because he's literally saying insults . . . I could "not listen" or . . . he could stop insulting people who say negative things about Marvel. I just don't think that's what I want from a message board; a place where having negative opinions deserves the insults of Marvel professionals.

[Ari Gold]

I don't know if the football thing is a good example, because we're not talking about losers. Many of the arguments are about whether the win could have been bigger.

I think you're being overly specific in order to evade a relevant comparison. Take for example a baseball team. The fans could spend all off-season arguing about free agents or trades the team should or shouldn't have made. Nobody's talking about losers. It would still be inappropriate for the team's employees to step in there and make fun of the fans criticizing the team.

So should writers and editors walk on eggshells to avoid insulting the feelings of fans?

If my football example wasn't a good one, this certainly shouldn't qualify. But assuming that the comparison was relevant, I would still think the fans should be treated respectfully. But still not really the point.

If every time I say something negative about double-shipping or a book I didn't like, I am simultaneously personally insulting Mr. Wacker, then we are left with a few possible outcomes.
1) I could stop saying negative things about Marvel, so as not to personally offend him.
2) He could stop taking personal offense to fans criticizing Marvel.
3) We can continue as is. But seemingly nobody will be happy.

It seems that most comic book professionals take approach #2. They either ignore the criticism, or don't feel the need to fight back at the fan for expressing a negative opinion.

These aren't unfiltered private conversations. This is stuff we're all putting up for public consumption. That comes with a higher responsibility on certain things. There's more of an obligation to get the facts right (it's often easy to google) and to express yourself in a clear manner.

Yes, but you seem to be working under a false premise. Nobody here is arguing that Mr. Wacker, Mr. Slott or any other professional shouldn't correct a fan who is wrong. We may be asking to be treated more politely when doing so, but that's still not the main part of the discussion. We're talking about instances where the creators are not looking to correct mis-information, they are simply looking to poke at fans who voice a negative opinion.

[Ben Smith]

I personally save negative comments for work and not individuals, but if I called someone a hack and they got back to me, they just went from a hack to a creepy hack. Those that don't think less of you still aren't gonna be impressed by the way you freaked out on a public forum.

So, you admit you maintain a double standard? You can post what you want for the public to see, but any responses are automatically creepy.

Lord knows, I would fire Wacker if I could. But alas, even as a Disney shareholder, I can't get to him.

So as long as he remains competent in his job or kisses the right ass, he can say whatever he wants on line without repercussions. He's untouchable.

^Nobody ever provokes saracastic responses from Wacker. Regular ole posters never say things that might elicit a negative response. Nope, doesn't happen

[Ben Smith]

If a 49ers fan got on a message board to vent after the loss, I wouldn't expect the players to show up there and mock him for not knowing anything about what really happens.
I also wouldn't expect anybody on the management side to show up there and start defending the team either. It's just not generally accepted practice. And in fact, when someone representing the company does fire off at discontent fans, they get publicly reprimanded for it.

so....what's your point? Other businesses handle their customer relations differently? Success!