Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31
  1. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2,231

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    I actually love Frankenstein. He's more modern classic literature. Not classic historical literature. A millennium-old manuscript that defined a language and a 150-year-old novel aren't quite the same thing.
    Azzarello did redefined the greek gods.

  2. #17
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightrider View Post
    Azzarello did redefined the greek gods.
    still not the same. but whatever.
    Comics were happier before the Internet turned writing superhero stories into fruitless attempts to impress/entertain a small group of ppl who appear to hate comics and their creators.
    Grant Morrison

  3. #18
    I'm a true LoL! Shinomune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Barcelona, Catalonia
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    And Demon Knights with Merlin and King Arthur?

  4. #19
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinomune View Post
    And Demon Knights with Merlin and King Arthur?
    again, not the same thing. We're not even talking about the characters themselves, just if it's a good idea for them to have their own title (really, it's just on the other page, can't be hard to find). The Greek gods, Merlin, Arthur, etc are just supporting characters in a title. That's fine and dandy. Does that mean it should be DC's prerogative to give any classic historical literary character (or even in Arthur's case, a character w/ some historicity) a title, just b/c they work as a supporting character in a comic? No.

    Besides, Merlin and Arthur still aren't the same thing, in terms of literary significance, as Beowulf.
    Last edited by Dr. Cheesesteak; 12-22-2012 at 06:20 PM.
    Comics were happier before the Internet turned writing superhero stories into fruitless attempts to impress/entertain a small group of ppl who appear to hate comics and their creators.
    Grant Morrison

  5. #20
    Completely sauced... klinton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Montrťal
    Posts
    8,212

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mmehshow View Post
    So I take it you don't like Frankenstein in the DC universe?
    Or Wonder Woman.
    Freedom is merely the ability to live without fear of persecution.

  6. #21
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    Besides, Merlin and Arthur still aren't the same thing, in terms of literary significance, as Beowulf.
    Yeah, you can't really say don't use Beowulf, but use Arthur and Merlin. If you personally don't want it, fine, that's up to you. But there's no real reason why DC shouldn't use them.

  7. #22
    Senior Member gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,432

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post

    Besides, Merlin and Arthur still aren't the same thing, in terms of literary significance, as Beowulf.
    Kind of a matter of opinion there. Le Morte D'Arthur, Idylls of the King, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and The Once and Future King among many, many others argue otherwise. One major poem versus many works of importance, and several major works says otherwise.

    And of course DC also uses the Greek Gods, who while obviously originally religious figures also appear in and are primary or even the main characters in many works of literary significance that perhaps outstrips that of Beowulf.

    Certainly both The Illiad and The Odyssey do.

    I personally have no problem with this sort of thing. What matters is that the new work is done well, IMO. Using figures from earlier and greater works is a very common thing in literature of all sorts and genres. DC isn't doing anything unusual or terrible here.
    Try my Blog!

    And visit me on Facebook here!

  8. #23
    Blue Boba ABH-1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4,650

    Default

    Beowulf is great; it's that gemworld shit that needs to go.
    DC: Action Comics - Detective Comics - Batman and... - Batman - Justice League
    Marvel: All-New X-Factor

  9. #24
    Senior Member protege's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,511

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golgi View Post
    I would buy it. So far, he's one of the coolest new characters and the setting is post apocalyptic world, which has a lot of potential. At the end of his backup, it said Beowulf returns in 2013.

    If this is what Beowulf looks like, what about Stalker?

  10. #25
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    again, not the same thing. We're not even talking about the characters themselves, just if it's a good idea for them to have their own title (really, it's just on the other page, can't be hard to find). The Greek gods, Merlin, Arthur, etc are just supporting characters in a title. That's fine and dandy. Does that mean it should be DC's prerogative to give any classic historical literary character (or even in Arthur's case, a character w/ some historicity) a title, just b/c they work as a supporting character in a comic? No.

    Besides, Merlin and Arthur still aren't the same thing, in terms of literary significance, as Beowulf.
    What about Thor? Old Nordic mythological character with probably more connections to the "real version" than this Beowulf. Not only is he a comic book character, he is a superhero and a member of the greatest team of his universe.
    "I'm going to paraphrase Nietzsche, when you judge a work, the work judges you."

  11. #26
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    What about Thor? Old Nordic mythological character with probably more connections to the "real version" than this Beowulf. Not only is he a comic book character, he is a superhero and a member of the greatest team of his universe.
    And Thor was not a character, but a god in which people once believed. He had more influence in the world than Beowulf ever had. And we can keep coming up with examples quite easily.
    Again, it's really simple: if he doesn't personally thinks Beowulf should be used by DC, fine. But that would have to be a personal call, since it makes no sense within any context.

  12. #27
    Inf‚me et fier de l'Ítre Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    And Thor was not a character, but a god in which people once believed. He had more influence in the world than Beowulf ever had. And we can keep coming up with examples quite easily.
    Again, it's really simple: if he doesn't personally thinks Beowulf should be used by DC, fine. But that would have to be a personal call, since it makes no sense within any context.
    Wouldn't that make using Thor even worse? I mean, what would people say if I turned Jesus into a superhero? "Stop it, dude, it's serious business"?
    I just don't get his reasonning. Using public domain characters and mythological characters is one of the most common things in fiction. What makes Beowulf any different than all the examples he has been given of characters of the same kind used as a superhero? Why can I use Hercules, but not Beowulf?

  13. #28
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Wouldn't that make using Thor even worse? I mean, what would people say if I turned Jesus into a superhero? "Stop it, dude, it's serious business"?
    I just don't get his reasonning. Using public domain characters and mythological characters is one of the most common things in fiction. What makes Beowulf any different than all the examples he has been given of characters of the same kind used as a superhero? Why can I use Hercules, but not Beowulf?
    I was supporting your argument...

  14. #29
    pygophile and podophile Dr. Cheesesteak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    4,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Yeah, you can't really say don't use Beowulf, but use Arthur and Merlin.
    lucky me, i didn't say that
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Kent View Post
    Again, it's really simple: if he doesn't personally thinks Beowulf should be used by DC, fine. But that would have to be a personal call, since it makes no sense within any context.
    nor did i say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwydion View Post
    Kind of a matter of opinion there. Le Morte D'Arthur, Idylls of the King, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and The Once and Future King among many, many others argue otherwise. One major poem versus many works of importance, and several major works says otherwise.
    I don't think spin offs determine historical or literary significance of the work in and of itself (is A Study in Scarlet then more significant than Romance of the Three Kingdoms?). Again, one defined a language just after a time when there was no written language in Europe. The other is just some built up myths from a historical figure like 700~800 years after his existence and after writing was already established. Not the same thing. I think more historians, anthropologists, and literary researchers would agree than not (sorry, appeal to authority!). Also, keep in mind, Beowulf has had plenty of offshoots of its own (Eaters of the Dead, Grendel, Gaiman short works, plenty of opera, movies)...so your point seems fairly irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by gwydion View Post
    And of course DC also uses the Greek Gods, who while obviously originally religious figures also appear in and are primary or even the main characters in many works of literary significance that perhaps outstrips that of Beowulf.

    Certainly both The Illiad and The Odyssey do.

    I personally have no problem with this sort of thing. What matters is that the new work is done well, IMO. Using figures from earlier and greater works is a very common thing in literature of all sorts and genres. DC isn't doing anything unusual or terrible here.
    and also again, I never said DC shouldn't use Beowulf (I even said I enjoyed the backup...really, just 1 page over, go look!). Nor did I say they shouldn't use the Greek pantheon, Arthurian legends, or even Paris or Odysseus, etc. I simply think they shouldn't give them their own ongoing titles. I'd rather DC focus on trying to focus/innovate their own IPs than spend an ongoing just to rehash historical literary characters open to public domain. Really, nothing else. It's fine to disagree w/ that, but at this point, ppl seem to just be arguing against something I never said.
    Comics were happier before the Internet turned writing superhero stories into fruitless attempts to impress/entertain a small group of ppl who appear to hate comics and their creators.
    Grant Morrison

  15. #30
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cheesesteak View Post
    I'd rather DC focus on trying to focus/innovate their own IPs than spend an ongoing just to rehash historical literary characters open to public domain. Really, nothing else. It's fine to disagree w/ that, but at this point, ppl seem to just be arguing against something I never said.
    Sure, I can agree with that. But at the end of the day, I want to read comics I enjoy and this Beowulf backup was one of my favourite recent comics.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •