What is Wonder Woman bringing on the table for Superman in their relationship?

[Shadow Skill]

Maybe they'd go out on dates beyond the earthly realm. I'd like to see them play video games like me an my girlfriend does sometimes. Overall I think both of them can enhance each others lives with differences they will accept and grow fonder because of it.

[misslane38]

Maybe they'd go out on dates beyond the earthly realm. I'd like to see them play video games like me an my girlfriend does sometimes. Overall I think both of them can enhance each others lives with differences they will accept and grow fonder because of it.

It's funny to see you mention video games because I was reminded of the fact that Clark and Lois on Smallville used to play Guitar Hero together. Lois was an avid gamer in that series. During the Pre-Flashpoint era, Clark took Lois on several out of this world dates, including a Christmas date in the bottle city of Kandor. It's interesting to hear you speak of differences when most responses in the thread have focused on the beneficial similarities between Superman and Wonder Woman. I wonder what differences, in particular, would enhance their respective lives.

[cactusmaac]

Clark can be a hero and a journalist because being a journalist allows him to be a hero without completely letting his work suffer. It's like a father who has to give up spending quality time with his kids because he wants to make enough money for their future college funds.

It's like a father deciding to put his screen-writing hobby on hold while he works another shift.

Superheroes pairing up is an example of people in the same profession marrying. Assortative mating is described as follows: "people picking spouses with similar educational achievements and incomes." Not the same thing.

They are both super-powered. One is an alien, the other is a demi-goddess. Both have extensive superpowers. In terms of physical traits, they are much more similar than Clark\Lois, WW\Steve. And that's the basis of thair assortative mating, as per the term is used in genetics.

Grant Morrison sees Superman as a myth. Myths are stories that endure generation after generation. John Carter is not a modern myth. The unexplored territory wouldn't have to simply pick up where the Post-Crisis left off; mind you, it is ridiculous that DC and critical fans decry the marriage for not progressing when the progressive elements that were added (e.g. Chris) were ripped away from the narrative without ever utilizing them properly. The unexplored territory you are yearning for fits into the same category as the unexplored territory in Superman's relationship with Lex Luthor in the New 52 or the new types of bonds he may form with Superboy and Supergirl. In other words, all the story has to do is to retain the core elements of Superman's myth while experimenting with creative new takes on them. You don't see Morrison or Lobdell giving up on using Lex Luthor as an antagonist just because that story has been told in several permutations before, for example.

You see Lois Lane's relationship being a core part of the myth, I see it as being ancillary. Heck, even Luthor is ancillary. The Superman myth can be boiled down to the first page of All-Star Superman #1.

Didn't Superman need Diana and the League to rescue him from Cheetah?

Exactly. Diana was a trusted colleague who he knows he can count on to get him out of trouble and thus makes for good spousal material. Lois not so much. Being rescued from magical possession most likely helps him out much more than Lois' efforts to boost his Q rating.

Lois Lane, for 75 years, has been a journalist well-known for risking her life for a story that could expose and take down bad guys. You must know this.

Yes, well known for relying on Superman to get her out of the frying-pan.

Lois Lane is not frequently saved from rogue buses, though. She has hardly been saved at all in the New 52; certainly not any more than any of the members of the Justice League.

Exactly. New 52 Lois can't really relate to what Superman faces on a regular basis as compared to WW.

You'd think a super popular romance with DC's ultimate power couple would have cushioned the sales losses due to Jim Lee, but alas Superman and Wonder Woman are not saving the book or bringing in heaps of new readers.

Well, it made me a regular reader of Justice League. Absent that it's likely the impact would be much worse. In any case, there aren't a barrel-load of potential readers and pissed-off ex-fans waiting to give DC their money just as soon as Supes starts smooching Lois again. Even you're still here and reading the books.

[super1man]

To those belittling Lois saying she would be useless in combat against high powered enemy - should your wives be able to beat up 5-6 guys if they are harassing you. A normal guy can be involved in such a situation and even if you deny such a thing can happen to you regularly do you believe that a cop, a soldier, or a fireman should only marry girls who can save them if they are overwhelmed in their job situation by superior enemy?

Lois need not be a superhero. She is already more famous than any female superhero.

[Kurosawa]

To those belittling Lois saying she would be useless in combat against high powered enemy - should your wives be able to beat up 5-6 guys if they are harassing you. A normal guy can be involved in such a situation and even if you deny such a thing can happen to you regularly do you believe that a cop, a soldier, or a fireman should only marry girls who can save them if they are overwhelmed in their job situation by superior enemy?

Lois need not be a superhero. She is already more famous than any female superhero.

Pre-Crisis, Lois knew the Kryptonian martial art Klurkor and often got herself out of her own scrapes. The damsel in distress Lois was really a Golden Age thing more than anything else, and even then she got into so much trouble because she was so brave and also reckless-and that was a big part of why Superman loved her so much. It's easier to leap into danger when you're superpowered, but for a normal human to do it shows real heart. Especially a person like Lois who at the time was not trained in combat or anything. It's different with Steve, he was a soldier and it was his job to be in danger.

To me, the worst thing they've done with Lois in the nu52 is not that she isn't with Superman, it's that they've sort of had her compromise her journalistic principles for success. It's one of the few things they've done with the new Superman that has concerned me apart from the Lee costume which I don't like. But I'm sure she'll come around.

[Superlad93]

To those belittling Lois saying she would be useless in combat against high powered enemy - should your wives be able to beat up 5-6 guys if they are harassing you. A normal guy can be involved in such a situation and even if you deny such a thing can happen to you regularly do you believe that a cop, a soldier, or a fireman should only marry girls who can save them if they are overwhelmed in their job situation by superior enemy?

Lois need not be a superhero. She is already more famous than any female superhero.

Not more famous than Wonder Woman.

[Fate's Faith]

If being a journalist was equally important to Clark, has he ever blown off his commitments as a superhero to do journalistic work? It's the journalist side of his life that always takes the hit, to the extent that he seriously considered giving up that aspect of his life. The issue would not have arisen in the first place if he regarded his journalism as being equally important. Therefore, it is inaccurate to say Lois and Diana operate in equally important spheres when WW operates in the more important and critical one.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say (thanks for saying better ). You can't make the claim that his being a reporter is as important as being Superman if that's where he makes the sacrifice. I don't think its necessarily a hobby to him but to me he treats it as one. Its what he does during his off time apparently. And lucky for him due to his super speed, he doesn't need to invest that much time. Now when we start seeing him ask Wonder Woman to save the world because he's got a blog to get out then maybe he's treating them as equals.

[Shadow Skill]

It's funny to see you mention video games because I was reminded of the fact that Clark and Lois on Smallville used to play Guitar Hero together. Lois was an avid gamer in that series. During the Pre-Flashpoint era, Clark took Lois on several out of this world dates, including a Christmas date in the bottle city of Kandor. It's interesting to hear you speak of differences when most responses in the thread have focused on the beneficial similarities between Superman and Wonder Woman. I wonder what differences, in particular, would enhance their respective lives.

Lois is different, she's more a insert concept that lets us experience what it's like to be with a god intimately, I feel that it's easy to imagine Lois and Clark being like us as a romance partners since Lois is our human connection towards the couple but it's also predictable. A alien with humananity and a Godess based warrior trying to find a tie towards humanity is way more fun. Diana would also be more interesting if she was tsundere towards Clark as a woman who finds his light heartedness very frustrating yet adorable. Lois always came of to me as a well adjusted nag machine who often bullies Clark, aka my relationship.

Beside goingon a date in space with actual gods from Greek History seems more awesome iMO.

[Shadow Skill]

To those belittling Lois saying she would be useless in combat against high powered enemy - should your wives be able to beat up 5-6 guys if they are harassing you. A normal guy can be involved in such a situation and even if you deny such a thing can happen to you regularly do you believe that a cop, a soldier, or a fireman should only marry girls who can save them if they are overwhelmed in their job situation by superior enemy?

Lois need not be a superhero. She is already more famous than any female superhero.

Well is she as loved as someone like Katniss or maybe Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash.

[misslane38]

Lois is different, she's more a insert concept that lets us experience what it's like to be with a god intimately, I feel that it's easy to imagine Lois and Clark being like us as a romance partners since Lois is our human connection towards the couple but it's also predictable. A alien with humananity and a Godess based warrior trying to find a tie towards humanity is way more fun. Diana would also be more interesting if she was tsundere towards Clark as a woman who finds his light heartedness very frustrating yet adorable. Lois always came of to me as a well adjusted nag machine who often bullies Clark, aka my relationship.

This explains a lot. All I'll add to that is I just don't agree with you on what is fun or the way you characterize Lois, which sounds more like it's based on the way she was depicted decades ago and not recently. I mean, have you see this Lois from Smallville (clip)?

Beside goingon a date in space with actual gods from Greek History seems more awesome iMO.

Is it more awesome because they're both doing it or is it just awesome to see anyone do that? In other words, do you find it just as awesome to see Superman travel by himself to spectacular new places? Additionally, as soon as that date has happened once, then what? All that novelty will wear off eventually. Meanwhile, the ordinary person with the extraordinary person is so rich that it predominates popular narratives: the hobbits interact with the majesty of Elves, humans travel as companions with Doctor Who, etc.

Well is she as loved as someone like Katniss or maybe Twilight Sparkle and Rainbow Dash.

Absolutely. For example, this blog dedicated to every Lois has thousands of followers. One post of Lois from the Fleischer cartoons received over a thousand notes (people clicking a button to show they liked the post or shared it with others). She even has her own statue in Metropolis, IL. She's beloved, I assure you.

[Kurosawa]

Also, part of why Supes puts on the glasses and bumbles around as Clark Kent is he gets bored with his own perfection. If his own perfection bores him, Diana's might as well. Lois has bad habits, she can't spell to save her life, she writes corny poems that she hides in a lead covered box...she's human. Diana might be more perfect than Superman himself. Even her Diana Prince act when she did it was a 100% act, while Clark is an expression of Superman's innerself to a degree...some people think he even sees himself as the nebbish Clark.

[nightrider]

Gosh, why does everything have to be about lois lane with you, if you're so obsessed go post it in a thread i love lois lane. This thread is called What is Wonder Woman bringing on the table for Superman in their relationship. If Wonder Woman brings nothing to the table for you miss lane, so be it, don't shoehorn lois f9cking lane into every single post.

[misslane38]

That's exactly what I've been trying to say (thanks for saying better ). You can't make the claim that his being a reporter is as important as being Superman if that's where he makes the sacrifice. I don't think its necessarily a hobby to him but to me he treats it as one. Its what he does during his off time apparently. And lucky for him due to his super speed, he doesn't need to invest that much time. Now when we start seeing him ask Wonder Woman to save the world because he's got a blog to get out then maybe he's treating them as equals.

There's simply no need to rank the parts of Superman's life, especially when Clark has explicitly spoken about the power of journalism to do just as much good in its own way as fisticuffs with the latest alien or metahuman threat. Bottom line is he sees value in journalism. He may not get to do it as often as he would like, but that doesn't mean he doesn't view what other journalists who do have the time as lesser than what he does as a superhero. Thus, he not only finds the profession interesting and fulfilling, but also of great value as an instrument of change whether he's doing it or not, which means he would naturally find someone like Lois, who feels similarly and engages in that same "hobby," attractive. Especially, since after engaging in superhero life he can find refuge in the thing that he sacrifices much like many of us might find refuge in a "hobby" like, say, comic books. I have to urge you and cactusmaac to please watch Smallville's "Hex" and "Warrior." They deal with these issues head on in a way I think you'd find very illuminating.

Here's some dialogue from "Hex"

Chloe: Weird and unexplained? You sound like you miss it.
Clark: Oh, I don't know. It's just there's a whole half of my life where this happens every day. Weird has become so normal, it's not even weird anymore. Honestly, I like what I'm doing at the Planet now. But I would be lying if I said that there weren't days when I wish I could forget about saving the world and just be a normal reporter.

Chloe: Hmm. It must have been hard to harness up again.
Clark: To be honest, a life without responsibility kind of felt empty. I mean, this is who I am, Chloe. Every morning, I wake up with a purpose.

Some from "Warrior"

Clark: Right there with you. Magic, fantasy -- it's all in a day's work. Day in, day out. What are everyone else's fantasies have become so...normal.

Zatanna: Careful. A girl might just start to crush on you. Are you sure we can't keep this team-up rolling? I mean, you've saved me more than once now, and I'd love to return the favor.
Clark: As flattered as I am... .. think I'm interested in finding my fantasy somewhere else.
Zatanna: It must be love. Make sure she knows just how lucky she is, Clark.

Clark: I was rethinking what I said about not understanding... fantasy and, uh... you asked me what my dream was, and it's this... with you, Lois.

Gosh, why does everything have to be about lois lane with you, if you're so obsessed go post it in a thread i love lois lane. This thread is called What is Wonder Woman bringing on the table for Superman in their relationship. If Wonder Woman brings nothing to the table for you miss lane, so be it, don't shoehorn lois f9cking lane into every single post.

Other people were talking about her first, but just because I'm doing so in a positive way you suddenly have a need to complain. Try to be more transparent, I dare you. Clearly I'm not the only one interested in discussing Lois, but if you're not interested in the discussion you can not read it or you can change the subject by talking about Wonder Woman's contribution, which you haven't at all yet have you? Nope, you'd rather whine about me doing something several other people are doing and then not contribute a damn thing that's on topic, which means you really don't care about the thread being on topic at all. You just don't want to hear pro-Lois talk. Brilliant.

Also, part of why Supes puts on the glasses and bumbles around as Clark Kent is he gets bored with his own perfection. If his own perfection bores him, Diana's might as well. Lois has bad habits, she can't spell to save her life, she writes corny poems that she hides in a lead covered box...she's human. Diana might be more perfect than Superman himself. Even her Diana Prince act when she did it was a 100% act, while Clark is an expression of Superman's innerself to a degree...some people think he even sees himself as the nebbish Clark.

Superman is not perfect. Diana is not perfect. Heroes without flaws -- characters without flaws -- are not worth reading about. Characterizing "Clark Kent" as Superman's way of coping with his own perfection is repellent, to be honest.

[Kurosawa]

There's simply no need to rank the parts of Superman's life, especially when Clark has explicitly spoken about the power of journalism to do just as much good in its own way as fisticuffs with the latest alien or metahuman threat. Bottom line is he sees value in journalism. He may not get to do it as often as he would like, but that doesn't mean he doesn't view what other journalists who do have the time as lesser than what he does as a superhero. Thus, he not only finds the profession interesting and fulfilling, but also of great value as an instrument of change whether he's doing it or not, which means he would naturally find someone like Lois, who feels similarly and engages in that same "hobby," attractive. Especially, since after engaging in superhero life he can find refuge in the thing that he sacrifices much like many of us might find refuge in a "hobby" like, say, comic books. I have to urge you and cactusmaac to please watch Smallville's "Hex" and "Warrior." They deal with these issues head on in a way I think you'd find very illuminating.

Here's some dialogue from "Hex"

Chloe: Weird and unexplained? You sound like you miss it.
Clark: Oh, I don't know. It's just there's a whole half of my life where this happens every day. Weird has become so normal, it's not even weird anymore. Honestly, I like what I'm doing at the Planet now. But I would be lying if I said that there weren't days when I wish I could forget about saving the world and just be a normal reporter.

Chloe: Hmm. It must have been hard to harness up again.
Clark: To be honest, a life without responsibility kind of felt empty. I mean, this is who I am, Chloe. Every morning, I wake up with a purpose.

Some from "Warrior"

Clark: Right there with you. Magic, fantasy -- it's all in a day's work. Day in, day out. What are everyone else's fantasies have become so...normal.

Zatanna: Careful. A girl might just start to crush on you. Are you sure we can't keep this team-up rolling? I mean, you've saved me more than once now, and I'd love to return the favor.
Clark: As flattered as I am... .. think I'm interested in finding my fantasy somewhere else.
Zatanna: It must be love. Make sure she knows just how lucky she is, Clark.

Clark: I was rethinking what I said about not understanding... fantasy and, uh... you asked me what my dream was, and it's this... with you, Lois.



Other people were talking about her first, but just because I'm doing so in a positive way you suddenly have a need to complain. Try to be more transparent, I dare you. Clearly I'm not the only one interested in discussing Lois, but if you're not interested in the discussion you can not read it or you can change the subject by talking about Wonder Woman's contribution, which you haven't at all yet have you? Nope, you'd rather whine about me doing something several other people are doing and then not contribute a damn thing that's on topic, which means you really don't care about the thread being on topic at all. You just don't want to hear pro-Lois talk. Brilliant.



Superman is not perfect. Diana is not perfect. Heroes without flaws -- characters without flaws -- are not worth reading about. Characterizing "Clark Kent" as Superman's way of coping with his own perfection is repellent, to be honest.

Gerard Jones doesn't think so, and he knows much more about comics and literature than either of us. Clark Kent is Superman's way of coping with a lot of things. Besides, it's not like Superman thinks of himself as perfect...but when the standard you are held to is perfection and Godhood, the glasses and the high-pitched voice is a great way to get that monkey off your back, even if you're Superman.

[lariatofhestia]

I think being able to cut loose for Superman would feel a relief after years of control. Can you imagine just being able to be with someone you don't have to restrain yourself in anyway? and I'm not only talking intimacy but just free to speak the truth. He'll finally be able to spar with a partner both physically and intellectually and Diana will give him no quarter in that she will encourage him to bring it. I know they will butt heads too because they do have some different ways of dealing with things and that can only enhance them because a good relationship is not about doing things one way or your way.