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  1. #61
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate's Faith View Post
    I think I would puke if Dick Grayson had to become the mentor of two girls who exist solely to inhabit the unused identity of one of the Bat family. Girls... get your own damn life!
    Dick Grayson has been inhabiting an unused identity of Superman for ages.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  2. #62
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    I think the current problem with Nightwing is that he lost most of his long-term history, now becoming a recent Robin who might have led a Titans group who was definitely Batman for reasons they can't even tell us in fear of new readers having a tantrum.

    He had a rich history to explore and it's not there anymore. He's become a tie-in attraction who just copes with random villains that Bruce manages to piss off.

    So yes, he does need a long-term direction. He needs his old history re-affirmed. He needs to be leading a team. He needs something besides being "bat-fake".

  3. #63
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Dick Grayson has been inhabiting an unused identity of Superman for ages.
    That bastard! But isn't that the paradox that could unravel the entire DC Universe if we tug on it too much?

    And its Batman's isnt' it?

  4. #64
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fate's Faith View Post
    And its Batman's isnt' it?
    Apparently Superman and Jimmy Olsen were the first Nightwing and Flamebird in Kandor. Various others, including IIRC Bruce Wayne have had their turn at either identity.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  5. #65
    Dazed and Confused Badou's Avatar
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    I wonder if the whole Nightwing connection to Superman is still in continuity.

    Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing Cass show up in the book as a recurring character. It would be this book or Inc where I think she would fit in the best. Dick's always been at his best when he had another strong character to work off of and I think their contrasting personalities would allow for an interesting dynamic.
    Last edited by Badou; 12-23-2012 at 05:35 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Apparently Superman and Jimmy Olsen were the first Nightwing and Flamebird in Kandor. Various others, including IIRC Bruce Wayne have had their turn at either identity.
    What's often overlooked, is that Superman and Jimmy chose the names in homage to Batman & Robin. In a two issue adventure, they went undercover as vigilantes in the city of Kandor. So they picked identities with the likeness of the Dynamic Duo. So in reality, Dick did choose a mantle that was the perfect mesh of his two biggest mentors.

    Now with that relationship gone, who knows how he got the name. Just one of a dozen problems concerning Dick's rebooted history.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Robotman4's Avatar
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    Nightwing desperately needs his own rogues gallery! A hero is only as good as his villains. Maybe they could bring back Blockbuster. I think we'd all like to forget the Tarantula story.

  8. #68

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    I like this run anyway. I would like to see Blockbuster back and/or maybe Tarantula...minus what happened. I think things will take off soon in a good way and I hope Sonia Zucco is here to stay. I'm sick of Babs/Dick, Kor'i/Dick especially the former. At least with Sonia there is someone to flesh out and have in the long run.

    In regards to creative teams, I like what Higgins is doing. Considering I'm on a massive strict budget I'm happy with Nightwing. However I would like it to be less darker.

  9. #69
    The Livewire
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSimonHurt View Post
    I think the current problem with Nightwing is that he lost most of his long-term history, now becoming a recent Robin who might have led a Titans group who was definitely Batman for reasons they can't even tell us in fear of new readers having a tantrum.

    He had a rich history to explore and it's not there anymore. He's become a tie-in attraction who just copes with random villains that Bruce manages to piss off.

    So yes, he does need a long-term direction. He needs his old history re-affirmed. He needs to be leading a team. He needs something besides being "bat-fake".
    This seems to be what I noticed too. Pre-52 Dick Grayson's 'super power' is that he's known (and loved) by most of the Superhero community. That network needs to be restored. Have him hire Slade to watch his back for a mission. Have Tim turn to him for help, etc.

    An arc against (Secret Six style) Catman might be interesting, Thomas Blake was one of the more moral villians, and since his girlfriend has ceased to exist, a relationship with Dick might be interesting. Likewise, the Catgirl-Catwoman-Dick-as-Batman bit I liked. If the Falcone crime family is still in continuity, him training her might be interesting.

    If Bette ever becomes Flamebird, then a relationship is natural. If Bruce is the brains of the heroes, Dick needs to be the heart.

  10. #70
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Livewire View Post
    An arc against (Secret Six style) Catman might be interesting, Thomas Blake was one of the more moral villians, and since his girlfriend has ceased to exist, a relationship with Dick might be interesting.
    Well, Gail Simone did say Blake was bisexual...
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #71
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    I think Dick Grayson works fine as a character, the persona of Nightwing not so much.

    The problem with Nightwing is three-fold: persona, stories and location. The persona of Nightwing was a decent ID for Dick Grayson to adopt when he was moving on from being Robin and acting as the leader of the Titans in that it made him look like an adult representative of the Bat-Family i.e. a serious player. It worked OK when he was alone in Bludhaven mostly thanks to Dixon's solid plotting and characterisation even if the villains and stories weren't very memorable. Beating up gang members and third-tier Batman villains gets old after a while.

    As a solo vigilante operating in Gotham at night, he's a junior grade version of Batman. In that environment what exactly does he offer that's distinctive?

    Morrison made him work as Batman by doing a 180 and making him like his Robin persona: a daredevil, fun, acrobatic SUPERHERO with a smile on his face with over-the-top, flamboyant opponents. If he's going to be in Gotham, he should be the the sunny opposite to Batman, a crimefighter that's comfortable operating in broad daylight and having good relations with the police and public.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  12. #72
    Senior Member Robotman4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman4 View Post
    Nightwing desperately needs his own rogues gallery! A hero is only as good as his villains. Maybe they could bring back Blockbuster. I think we'd all like to forget the Tarantula story.
    Sorry, I'm commenting on my own post but I had a thought about Nightwing's rogues gallery. They could make Professor Pyg a Nightwing villain. I love the character and he did first appear while Dick was Batman.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Whip Whirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    Morrison made him work as Batman by doing a 180 and making him like his Robin persona: a daredevil, fun, acrobatic SUPERHERO with a smile on his face with over-the-top, flamboyant opponents. If he's going to be in Gotham, he should be the the sunny opposite to Batman, a crimefighter that's comfortable operating in broad daylight and having good relations with the police and public.
    I don't see how the persona of Nightwing takes that option off the table.

    Personally If I were Higgins I would play up Amusement Mile as a larger area of Gotham, with the larger area being known as "Amusement Mile" simply because it's the most recognizable landmark in the area.

    Then fill that area with guys like Pyg, Flamingo, etc.

    If they are going to legitimately cement Dick in Gotham, he has to has his own slice of it that can fit him as a character.

    See: Daredevil and how "Hell's Kitchen" isn't at all like Spider-Man's "New York"
    Last edited by Whip Whirlwind; 12-24-2012 at 08:38 AM.

  14. #74
    Haughty & Naughty Mia's Avatar
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    Thanks to whoever started this post. I was wondering the other day what the book was like and how it compared to previous incarnations, namely Dixon's run. I didn't bother to pick up any of the New 52 issues, I was just put out when they mentioned that they were jittisioning his back story with the Titans as well as his experience in Bludhaven etc. I just don't want to see Dick written as a boy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwing_87 View Post
    I'd really like to see Nightwing take on his own city again with a major crime syndicate and not let him be killed this time. I think after Blockbuster got killed is when his first solo book started to spin out of control. Nightwing is truly an idealist and having him allow someone to be killed really broke his character.

    If he was in a city I'd really enjoy seeing some more cameo from DC characters maybe have batgirl co-star for an arch i think one of my favorite aspects of the first series was his love intrest to Babs and i think a highlight of the New 52 was when him and babs appeared in each others books on issue 4.

    But as stated above i think an atlantic cty esque city would be perfect and deff have him written more as he was in Batman and Robin or Snyders Black Mirror
    I agree. I loved Dixon's run and it would be nice to see Dick placed in a venue where he woud be doing double duty, both as Nightwing and maybe running his own security firm. That way you could have him be both involved in super-heroics as well as the inisde politics.
    "People who believe they are successful, carry themselves well."-Peggy Klaus

  15. #75
    Elder Member Vic Vega's Avatar
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    If they wanted Dick to have a separate identity they would have kept the Titans connection and used some of them as supporting cast.

    Dixon's run give 'Wing a decent enough rogues gallery. They could always bring back Pyg and Flamingo also(not as high on them as some others are).

    Mainly the character veers from dealing with editorial indifference to near sabotage. After all, Nightwing isn't a hard chracter to grasp. Higgins, Dixon, Tomasi, even Devin Grayson all got the character.

    Its just that the book cant seem to go a year without being deconstructed by the needs of the Bat office.

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