REVIEW: Wonder Woman, #15

[Rob_Olivera]

Geography? Maybe in the sense that her first address as Hippolyta's womb. Or in the sense that one of the two principal streams that fed the river of her life was Hippolyta's bloodstream.

None of the Amazons have Amazon fathers (as far as we know--though there could always be a story about one of the Amazons having a chance encounter with a Manazon.....) What defines an Amazon, genealogically, is having an Amazon mother, so she's as Amazon as anyone.

She is, granted, a lot stronger than other Amazons--and apparently stronger than other demigods ,at least when she's in god mode--and so she doesn't usually need weapons. But if she's fighting gods or god-like beings that are as strong as she is, a weapon might give an advantage. And as she tells Heph in #7, preferring swords (to guns, at least) is the way she was raised. She was learning to spar with (wooden) swords, and eager to try the real thing like a true Amazon warrior, by the time she was 12. So it's reasonable that she could have a cultural and emotional preference for swords.

And she shows against Darkseid that a sword can be a dangerous weapon in her hands. To be a weapon she uses more than once, the sword has to be durable enough to stand up to the force with which she uses it--but I doubt her bracers are manifesting swords that are just going to break.

Well if fathers don't count, then she's a purebred amazon. If they count, then she's a half-breed with the training of an Amazon.

As far as the swords go... IF Azzarello portrays Orion in the manner that I've seen him portrayed pre-nu52 then good luck to her! This is her own mag so she's unlikely to get her ass beat too severely.. but something painful this way comes in #16 if he does. I'd say put those two little toothpicks aside and take off those bracelets and engage God-Mode with a definite quickness.

I'd say that unless those new swords are like REALLY "magic" they're more of a hindrance than anything.

[slvn]

Well if fathers don't count, then she's a purebred amazon. If they count, then she's a half-breed with the training of an Amazon

If fathers count, though, then who IS a "purebred" Amazon? There' probably no one who has an Amazon father, unless some of Heph's wards have kids (and if they do, those kids probably don't have Amazons mothers.)

As far as the swords go... IF Azzarello portrays Orion in the manner that I've seen him portrayed pre-nu52 then good luck to her! This is her own mag so she's unlikely to get her ass beat too severely.. but something painful this way comes in #16 if he does. I'd say put those two little toothpicks aside and take off those bracelets and engage God-Mode with a definite quickness.

I'd say that unless those new swords are like REALLY "magic" they're more of a hindrance than anything.

Well, the sword of Hephaestus in Azz's For Tomorrow was able to scratch Superman (and reputedly able to sheet electrons from atoms). These swords are probably powered by the same source (Wonder Woman's godly powers) that made her able to beat Artemis-so they could be useful.

[Rob_Olivera]

If fathers count, though, then who IS a "purebred" Amazon? There' probably no one who has an Amazon father, unless some of Heph's wards have kids (and if they do, those kids probably don't have Amazons mothers.)



Well, the sword of Hephaestus in Azz's For Tomorrow was able to scratch Superman (and reputedly able to sheet electrons from atoms). These swords are probably powered by the same source (Wonder Woman's godly powers) that made her able to beat Artemis-so they could be useful.

Well, in the old continuity when Amazons were immortal they were over 3000 years old. They had fathers, they just never died because they were granted immortality upon reaching paradise island.

In this new continuity (with the knowledge we have so far) they ALL have human fathers (except maybe Hippolyta.. I guess) if they raid every 33 years. Except for Diana, whose father is a force of nature known as Zeus. So the answer would be Diana being a halfbreed, that's who. LOL.

Now let's see if Azz's interpretations of the magic swords matches that of "For Tomorrow".

[slvn]

In this new continuity (with the knowledge we have so far) they ALL have human fathers (except maybe Hippolyta.. I guess) if they raid every 33 years. Except for Diana, whose father is a force of nature known as Zeus. So the answer would be Diana being a halfbreed, that's who. LOL.

So "purebreed" in this case means "mother is an Amazon and father is a non-Amazon human of any ancestry whatever"? Seems odd to me. I don't think there's such a thing as a purebred Amazon. Almost by definition, they are all of mixed ancestry. (Talking about people as purebreeds and halfbreeds doesn't seem quite right to me, anyway. I mean, they're not poodles. :) )

Now let's see if Azz's interpretations of the magic swords matches that of "For Tomorrow".

All they really have to do is not break. If they can stand up to the force Diana puts behind him, they should be useful, as the sword she used against Orion's father Darkseid in JL was useful.

[Rob_Olivera]

So "purebreed" in this case means "mother is an Amazon and father is a non-Amazon human of any ancestry whatever"? Seems odd to me. I don't think there's such a thing as a purebred Amazon. (Talking about people as purebreds and halfbreeds doesn't seem quite right to me, anyway.)

Now let's see if Azz's interpretations of the magic swords matches that of "For Tomorrow".

[/QUOTE]

I hadn't realized it could be considered a "derogatory" term. I didn't mean it to come off that way. Basically what I'm trying to get at is that having a human father (or a "manazon" if they even truly exist) would be quite different from having a God as a father even if the mother is human. Even under Azz's run in the appropriate issue Diana told her mother that she never truly felt as if she belonged when she thought she had been made of Clay.

Yes, now it has been revealed that she does come from Hippolyta, but I don't think she's quite in the clear either by having a God as a father. She's still far and away genetically speaking different than the others. That was even alluded to in the latest issue, by Lennox.. where he says something to the effect that the blood doesn't flow quite right.

I don't hold this against the character... but she just ain't normal! LOL.

[slvn]

I hadn't realized it could be considered a "derogatory" term. I didn't mean it to come off that way.

Oh, no worries! I'm just saying that all Amazons are of mixed ancestry, in the sense their fathers, thought Amazons, are not human. But sure, there's not doubt that that being a demigod makes Diana different from the other Amazons. But she's still an Amazon by blood, not just geography. And anyway, normal is almost always overrated.:)

[dupersuper]

Wonder Woman having swords is like me carrying around a paper clip to use as a knife.

If they were big magic paper clips...

[Retro315]

I never really understand the separation between 'gods', 'demigods' and let's say, 'humans'. I don't get it in Aquaman with Atlaneans either.

For starters, they can all interbreed. Which means they're all equally human.

Secondly, all these various states of demigoddery or undersea mutation (mostly magically induced at one point) ... are so human it hurts. These are humans affected mystically by spells and alchemies of other humans. Magic itself is a purely human concept, since (ignoring aliens for a minute), magic is indistinguishable from a tangible form of human imagination.

Zeus, Hera, all that gang ... perfectly human.

Typically I roll with it, but in Aquaman # 15's case when Orm was talking about how weak 'humans' are, I was just like ... a couple thousand years in an isolated society can't make you forget that you yourself are human. A villain or sociopath believing themself to be better than human, sure, I can wrap my head around it. Sometimes I wish I was more than human, or depending on mood, a bit more 'inhuman', but those wishes are so damned human.

[Larry07]

IMO this book continues to be consistently bad. I took a look at it today hoping it would inspire me to once again put my favorite character back on my pull list. But alas that was not the case. The art is uninspiring, bland flat, one dimensional, cartoonish. Chiang might do well on DC's children's line of comics, not in the main stream super hero genre. I am not a fan of the new origin, I do like the costume, but it is drawn better by other artists in other books. Chiang lacks the quality of art to make Diana even appealing or heroic. Jury is out still on the bracelets producing swords..it is better than having a dagger attached around her leg. And always wondered what she did with the sword when not using it. I did like the scene in JLA where she used the lasso to change into her outfit. Was a good nod back to the real Wonder Woman. So far mr Azzarello has not impressed me with his writing skills. And the new origin changes the character so profoundly that she in no longer the heroine that Marston envisioned or created to be a role model for young girls, and I think he crossed a line with the Amazons and there is no redeeming them now. The Amazons were created by Marston to be an example of all the good ,(what he refereed to as the feminine quality's of mankind). Love Truth Peace, there nation of Woman had outgrown the need for violence (even though they retained their skills and trained to physical perfection) They embraced science, magic, the arts and knowledge. They were immortal beings,and would never have resorted to killing men and babies uselessly. There were no men on the island but they were not man haters or war loving in any way. These Amazons are barbaric, man hating and violent by nature and their way of life and the Island showed no sense of their cultural and artistic achievements. Marston I am sure is rolling in his grave at what DC has allowed to be done to the role model he created. Diana was not born of man and represented pure womanhood, now she is just another female Hercules with great strength and powers. Her abilities are no longer gifts of the Gods to fulfill a purpose, just inherited due to an accident of birth. The entire book is a shame and an insult to the memory of a once great character.

[brettc1]

I never really understand the separation between 'gods', 'demigods' and let's say, 'humans'. I don't get it in Aquaman with Atlaneans either.

For starters, they can all interbreed. Which means they're all equally human.

Secondly, all these various states of demigoddery or undersea mutation (mostly magically induced at one point) ... are so human it hurts. These are humans affected mystically by spells and alchemies of other humans. Magic itself is a purely human concept, since (ignoring aliens for a minute), magic is indistinguishable from a tangible form of human imagination.

Zeus, Hera, all that gang ... perfectly human.

Typically I roll with it, but in Aquaman # 15's case when Orm was talking about how weak 'humans' are, I was just like ... a couple thousand years in an isolated society can't make you forget that you yourself are human. A villain or sociopath believing themself to be better than human, sure, I can wrap my head around it. Sometimes I wish I was more than human, or depending on mood, a bit more 'inhuman', but those wishes are so damned human.

The gods are not human. Their biology is different. Sorry, but you might as well call a cat human because it is made up of cells and has most of the same organs. The term human refers to homo-sapiens. It can, perhaps, be adopted by others by their consent, but I dont see the gods doing that.

[B. Kuwanger]

They're us, with varying degrees of endurance. They're like...Beef Sapiens.

I finally got this issue. Very coy, but the character dynamics and art were top notch.

[brettc1]

They're us, with varying degrees of endurance. They're like...Beef Sapiens.

I finally got this issue. Very coy, but the character dynamics and art were top notch.

Edit - Darkseid and Neron aren't human, and neither are the Olympians :-)

[stupid auto-correct]

[Dr. Hurt]

Hey guys. Long time no see.

I just wanted to pop in and say that i loved the 15th issue as opposed to the 14th one which felt like filler and the dialogue during the sisters' fight very blatand and on the nose. Anyway back to #15. I particularly enjoyed the cinematic way in which Chiang told the story, like the time when Orion booms in NY or when he appears behind Lennox as he lights his lighter. Also, Zola and Hera are hilarious together. They're the Dick and Damian of the new 52, and i really loved how Diana tried to solve the babysitting problem.

The story is picking up big time and i cant wait to see where it's headed, although i'm not too interested in Lennox or Sciracca to be honest.

[SteveGus]

The art is uninspiring, bland flat, one dimensional, cartoonish. Chiang might do well on DC's children's line of comics, not in the main stream super hero genre.

I agree with you entirely on the destruction of the Amazons and Paradise Island. It seems to me that all Azzarello wants to do is to smear mud on our heroine and her world, because he thinks that's daring and clever.

But Chiang is an excellent artist who needs different material. Superhero books may not be his forte, unless it were something like the Giffen/Maguire Justice League, which I could easily see him doing well at. He does better at character work; the interaction between Zola and Hera in the last issue was nicely handled. Unfortunately, the story hasn't had the variety of emotional colors he needs to be used to best advantage. I'd be happy to see him on some less relentlessly bleak material.

[Rob_Olivera]

Hey guys. Long time no see.

I just wanted to pop in and say that i loved the 15th issue as opposed to the 14th one which felt like filler and the dialogue during the sisters' fight very blatand and on the nose. Anyway back to #15. I particularly enjoyed the cinematic way in which Chiang told the story, like the time when Orion booms in NY or when he appears behind Lennox as he lights his lighter. Also, Zola and Hera are hilarious together. They're the Dick and Damian of the new 52, and i really loved how Diana tried to solve the babysitting problem.

The story is picking up big time and i cant wait to see where it's headed, although i'm not too interested in Lennox or Sciracca to be honest.

Welcome back! World traveling, are we!?