REVIEW: Wonder Woman, #15

[Gaelforce]

Maybe because a lasso is not a weapon, she wouldn't use it much to fight with? Someone wielding a lasso doesn't cut a very imposing figure... now put two swords in their hands, and there's a warrior you might not want to mess with. And Wonder Woman is a warrior, not a cowboy (who btw don't even call them lassos... they just call it a rope), so she should be using actual weapons in combat.

The lasso is an awesome weapon. Watch the fight in Superman/Batman Apocalypse with her and Big Barda versus the Furies. Or this one from Crisis on Two Earths:



It all depends on how you use it.

[brettc1]

Maybe because a lasso is not a weapon, she wouldn't use it much to fight with? Someone wielding a lasso doesn't cut a very imposing figure... now put two swords in their hands, and there's a warrior you might not want to mess with. And Wonder Woman is a warrior, not a cowboy (who btw don't even call them lassos... they just call it a rope), so she should be using actual weapons in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7uZ4HnVL_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmktgjQTumQ

And I dont know - how many times do you see her kick someones ass with it in this clip? I lost count.



Then of course, there's this guy ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06hpUyAN9Y

[slvn]

It's not so much a lack of acceptance. At least from another hand, I wouldn't have an issue with her bracers being able to summon magic swords. But it does seem to be backpedaling on the idea that the bracers, which she can remove at will, keep her undefined god powers from manifesting.

I still don't see why you think it's backpedaling. Lennox points out in this issue that power inherited from Zeus often "don't flow correctly," and Heph acknowledges that he made the bracers, so it seems likely that he made the bracers to keep Diana's power from flowing incorrectly. As Heph says, he continues tinkering with his creations "to make them better in case things get worse," so evidently he tinkers with the bracers to let a little more power flow through in constructive ways when "things get worse" in the near future. Where's the backpedaling?

[Outside_85]

I am not really sure, but didn't Diana use to deny calling the lasso a weapon? (It's from that TT issue where she shows up to take Cassandra away and finds out Ares has given her a lasso as well)

[Imraith Nimphais]

The lasso is an awesome weapon. Watch the fight in Superman/Batman Apocalypse with her and Big Barda versus the Furies. Or this one from Crisis on Two Earths:



It all depends on how you use it.

That entire movie and especially that fight scene was wicked...Diana's somersault with a double twist into the pile-driver was hawtt!

[Sterling]

Finally caught up with the book. I'm really enjoying it.

[Agent_Dark]

The lasso is an awesome weapon. Watch the fight in Superman/Batman Apocalypse with her and Big Barda versus the Furies. Or this one from Crisis on Two Earths:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le0l5Pb1I0g

It all depends on how you use it.

I see her using the lasso as a crowd control tool, much the same way you use Batman's grapnel gun in combat in the Arkham Asylum/City games. It's not a weapon that you use to attack your opponent, it's a crowd control tool designed to hinder an opponent and leave them open for an attack with an actual weapon. You'll notice that in that video you linked, she's doing her actual attacks with kicks and punches and wrestling style throws and slams. There's not much you can do to directly attack an opponent with a piece of rope, other than to literally use it as a hangman's noose and hang them with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7uZ4HnVL_8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmktgjQTumQ

And I dont know - how many times do you see her kick someones ass with it in this clip? I lost count.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cDmZeHIY4

Then of course, there's this guy ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v06hpUyAN9Y

I have no idea what's going on in those first two videos, other than someone playing a with a scarf... How is deflecting a punch with a scarf meant to show the lasso is a viable weapon? She already has her bracelets which are used to deflect strikes...

All I see in that video from that Wonder Woman pilot is her using the lasso to pull people - just like the Hookshot from the Zelda games, or Skorpian's 'GET OVER HERE' pull from the Mortal Kombat games. It's not a weapon in of itself, rather a crowd control tool.

Also, in that last video you do realise that Indy uses a whip and not a piece of rope right? Not that whips are that effective as a weapon anyway, they're more used to inflict pain or rather the fear of pain (hence why they're specifically designed to make the loud cracking sound).

[thewarning]

I think the swords were editiorially mandated to explain the one she sports in JL which does not seem to be connected to her body in any way

[UsagiTsukino]

I still want to know where is she getting the money from. I mean she sets them up in a nice hotel and his Hera ordering room service

[jsrichardson1]

Yeah that's not where I thought they were going to go with the bracelets.. I thought it was a little lame.. They are usually shown to protect her. I thought they were going to reintroduce her being able to create force fields or, produce and command Zeus' lighting, or blasts of conductive force.. Not house other weapons. That was a bit off.. And what of her lasso? There have been 15 issues. She has hardly used it. Isn't the lasso supposed to be the most powerful weapon in the DCU?? I need them to show her using the weapons that she already has, as well as adding the new ones...

[brettc1]

I see her using the lasso as a crowd control tool, much the same way you use Batman's grapnel gun in combat in the Arkham Asylum/City games. It's not a weapon that you use to attack your opponent, it's a crowd control tool designed to hinder an opponent and leave them open for an attack with an actual weapon. You'll notice that in that video you linked, she's doing her actual attacks with kicks and punches and wrestling style throws and slams. There's not much you can do to directly attack an opponent with a piece of rope, other than to literally use it as a hangman's noose and hang them with it.

Now you're getting it.

The beauty of the lasso is that it is NOT necessarily the item that does damage. It can, but it also a device by which an opponent can be restrained or left open to attack. In this, it is much more elegant and interesting than a simple cleaver. It is a multi-fuctinal device.

However, a weapon that incapacitates instead of spilling blood is still a weapon. The online definition is...

Noun
1.A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
2.A means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest.

The lasso most often comes under #2, in the same that Spider-Man's webshooters can be used as a weapon.

I have no idea what's going on in those first two videos, other than someone playing a with a scarf... How is deflecting a punch with a scarf meant to show the lasso is a viable weapon? She already has her bracelets which are used to deflect strikes...

What you are seeing is a demonstration of a martial arts fighing kata designed around the use of a maleable length of material, like a rope or scarf. The fact that it exists at all demonstrates that this is not a new principal

All I see in that video from that Wonder Woman pilot is her using the lasso to pull people - just like the Hookshot from the Zelda games, or Skorpian's 'GET OVER HERE' pull from the Mortal Kombat games. It's not a weapon in of itself, rather a crowd control tool.

If you pull people from 30 feet away and slam them into a wall, then the laws of physics [Force = Mass multiplied by Acceleration] dictate that you can cause them injury. Again, Spider-Man does this in fights, as well as using the webs to hurl other objects like a sling [which is also a kind of weapon]

In the video below you see demonstration of this at

1 minute 45 seconds

2 minutes 10 seconds

2 minustes 30 seconds

Also, in that last video you do realise that Indy uses a whip and not a piece of rope right? Not that whips are that effective as a weapon anyway, they're more used to inflict pain or rather the fear of pain (hence why they're specifically designed to make the loud cracking sound).

You mean this sound?

[Agent_Dark]

Now you're getting it.

The beauty of the lasso is that it is NOT necessarily the item that does damage. It can, but it also a device by which an opponent can be restrained or left open to attack. In this, it is much more elegant and interesting than a simple cleaver. It is a multi-fuctinal device.

Right, which is used in conjunction with an actual deadly weapon. I'm not saying get rid of the lasso - far from it. I'm just saying the lasso is not the only item that Wonder Woman should carry. I love it when she's depicted as using a Sword and Shield in combat - you look at her using those and you instantly know she's a warrior.

However, a weapon that incapacitates instead of spilling blood is still a weapon. The online definition is...

Noun
1.A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
2.A means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest.

The lasso most often comes under #2, in the same that Spider-Man's webshooters can be used as a weapon.

Like I said, that's fine. She uses the lasso for CC, swords for damage.

What you are seeing is a demonstration of a martial arts fighing kata designed around the use of a maleable length of material, like a rope or scarf. The fact that it exists at all demonstrates that this is not a new principal

My point is she already has the bracers for defence. Why confuse things more and start depicting the rope as her melee defence too? Bracers = defence is a simple and easy thing to understand about Wonder Woman.

If you pull people from 30 feet away and slam them into a wall, then the laws of physics [Force = Mass multiplied by Acceleration] dictate that you can cause them injury. Again, Spider-Man does this in fights, as well as using the webs to hurl other objects like a sling [which is also a kind of weapon]

In the video below you see demonstration of this at

1 minute 45 seconds

2 minutes 10 seconds

2 minustes 30 seconds

Right, that's fine when she's attacking un-powered humans who she can fling around like toys all day. I'd like to see her up-gun herself a little more against the big huge threats though.

You mean this sound?

http://www.amazonarchives.com/Images/ww23p4.JPG

So it's a whip now? I thought it was a rope? The very fact that it's being depicted as a whip tells me that it's probably not the best concept for a weapon in the first place.

[brettc1]

Right, which is used in conjunction with an actual deadly weapon. I'm not saying get rid of the lasso - far from it. I'm just saying the lasso is not the only item that Wonder Woman should carry. I love it when she's depicted as using a Sword and Shield in combat - you look at her using those and you instantly know she's a warrior.

Why does she need a shield if she has the bracers?

Like I said, that's fine. She uses the lasso for CC, swords for damage.

And yet somehow Superman seems to manage without a weapon designed to cleave flesh and none. How is that?

My point is she already has the bracers for defence. Why confuse things more and start depicting the rope as her melee defence too? Bracers = defence is a simple and easy thing to understand about Wonder Woman.

And goodness knows Wonder Woman needs to be simple for people to get her. The idea that she could use the rope to entangle an opponent as they attack is going to to confuse them. Spider-Man.a writers must pull their hear out explaining those webs. Does he swing on them or wrap People in them ?

Right, that's fine when she's attacking un-powered humans who she can fling around like toys all day. I'd like to see her up-gun herself a little more against the big huge threats though.

This must be why the Hulk started wearing brass knuckles.

And of you look at JL Crisis she uses the lasso to neutralize Superwoman, someone we saw fight Superman to a standstill earlier. That's a pretty if gun.

So it's a whip now? I thought it was a rope? The very fact that it's being depicted as a whip tells me that it's probably not the best concept for a weapon in the first place.

It's an UNBREAKABLE rope. Whips don't have to be made of leather. They are in many cases because of properties of that material. But the lasso is made of material which has similar properties.

[Rob_Olivera]

Why does she need a shield if she has the bracers?



And yet somehow Superman seems to manage without a weapon designed to cleave flesh and none. How is that?




And goodness knows Wonder Woman needs to be simple for people to get her. The idea that she could use the rope to entangle an opponent as they attack is going to to confuse them. Spider-Man.a writers must pull their hear out explaining those webs. Does he swing on them or wrap People in them ?



This must be why the Hulk started wearing brass knuckles.

And of you look at JL Crisis she uses the lasso to neutralize Superwoman, someone we saw fight Superman to a standstill earlier. That's a pretty if gun.



It's an UNBREAKABLE rope. Whips don't have to be made of leather. They are in many cases because of properties of that material. But the lasso is made of material which has similar properties.

This is a classic case of having your cake and eating it too.

Wonder Woman is an Amazon by geography, not birth. She is a Demigod with Zeus's parentage. Even pre-nu52 and post-crisis she wasn't a true amazon like the others.

WW doesn't need swords. By all rights they should actually be a a hinder to her.

With that kind of unbridled power, who the hell needs weapons? They just portray her having them because she's an "Amazon" and they think she should for the "looks" of it.

Wonder Woman having swords is like me carrying around a paper clip to use as a knife.

[slvn]

This is a classic case of having your cake and eating it too.

Wonder Woman is an Amazon by geography, not birth. She is a Demigod with Zeus's parentage. Even pre-nu52 and post-crisis she wasn't a true amazon like the others.

Geography? Maybe in the sense that her first address as Hippolyta's womb. Or in the sense that one of the two principal streams that fed the river of her life was Hippolyta's bloodstream.

None of the Amazons have Amazon fathers (as far as we know--though there could always be a story about one of the Amazons having a chance encounter with a Manazon.....) What defines an Amazon, genealogically, is having an Amazon mother, so she's as Amazon as anyone.

She is, granted, a lot stronger than other Amazons--and apparently stronger than other demigods ,at least when she's in god mode--and so she doesn't usually need weapons. But if she's fighting gods or god-like beings that are as strong as she is, a weapon might give an advantage. And as she tells Heph in #7, preferring swords (to guns, at least) is the way she was raised. She was learning to spar with (wooden) swords, and eager to try the real thing like a true Amazon warrior, by the time she was 12. So it's reasonable that she could have a cultural and emotional preference for swords.

And she shows against Darkseid that a sword can be a dangerous weapon in her hands. To be a weapon she uses more than once, the sword has to be durable enough to stand up to the force with which she uses it--but I doubt her bracers are manifesting swords that are just going to break.

WW doesn't need swords. By all rights they should actually be a a hinder to her.

With that kind of unbridled power, who the hell needs weapons? They just portray her having them because she's an "Amazon" and they think she should for the "looks" of it.

Wonder Woman having swords is like me carrying around a paper clip to use as a knife.

The beauty of the lasso is that it is NOT necessarily the item that does damage. It can, but it also a device by which an opponent can be restrained or left open to attack. In this, it is much more elegant and interesting than a simple cleaver. It is a multi-fuctinal device.

I really like the use she makes of it in #0--to guide her out of the minotaur's labyrinth so that she can return to her female community. That's not very bad-ass, but symbolically, it makes the lasso the perfect unsword--not about cleaving, but about binding (or, in this case, reunifying).