The Joker and the Secret Identities: Does he or doesn't he...? SPOILERS

[Seattle Freeze]

^That would be an interesting plot. Joker having a secret identity for a time and trying to have a normal relationship in order to try to understand why Batman does it and how he does it. I imagine such a story would be much like John Lithgow's character in Dexter. Still, it would be intersting to see Joker do it.

[JasonTodd428]

That would be interesting to see. Wonder what his secret identity would be and what he would do with a "normal" relationship.

[bat39]

The only way that works is if Batman is too dumb to realize that he must know. That isn't a Batman I want to read about. All of them should be operating under the assumption that The Joker must know. None of them should care if he does or not, because exposing them would ruin his fun, and they also should know that. All in all, it is a stupid story line that should have no effect on the actions of our heroes anyway.

Well frankly, I don't think prior to this arc, any of the Bat-family have operated under the assumption that the Joker 'must know' but doesn't care...in fact, I remember this scene in The Killing Joke where Batman ruminates on how two men could hate each other so much without knowing each other; so he's pretty sure at least by that point that the Joker doesn't know.

The events of DOTF are the FIRST time any of them have seriously considered the possibility that he knows, and so they have a valid reason to freak out, regardless of whether he intends to use that knowledge against them or not. And if he knows, then in light of the kidnappings of Alfred and Barbara Sr., they have a genuine reason to be really terrified here of the ramifications of that...

[Seattle Freeze]

I don't think anyone was upset at the end of Hush when it turned out Riddler knew their identities.

[Conway]

Upon review, I stick by the assertion that he knows all of their "secret" identities. However, B&R would suggest that he doesn't know as much about Damian as he thinks he does. Otherwise he would like the little Gremlin more, and understand that when Damian says "I'll kill you!" he really does intend to kill you. That should be something The Joker would encourage. That and his view on Jason's status in the family suggest Bruce's attempts to keep secrets have some success.

[Headwires]

I personally prefer the idea that the Joker doesn't know who Batman and the Robins are, I like the idea Batman knows barely anything about Joker and that the Joker knows basically nothing about Batman, but that they both know each other in a way that no one else does. This, to me, would explain why Batman says the Joker is in love with him. However a lot of the evidence does point to the fact the Joker has known most, if not all, of their identities for a long time. I get the idea he might know but just doesn't care, yet I like the thought he wouldn't actively seek out his identity because he doesn't care. He wants to fight Batman, not unmask him.

[Rakiduam]

With the release of Teen Titans # 15, I updated my original post with an entry on Red Robin Tim Drake. I'm re-posting it here as well-

Red Robin/Tim Drake

Joker, again, CLAIMS that he knows who Tim is, though Tim doesn't believe him and again, he doesn't really offer much conclusive proof to suggest that he really knows. Interestingly enough, Joker does know that Tim was the 'third son' of Batman, and he also knows that Tim 'left' the Bat-family of his own choice. Of course, that doesn't really prove anything...he obviously knows that the first Robin became Nightwing, and he personally killed the second Robin (who later became Red Hood), so it would be obvious to him that Red Robin was the 'third'. Moreover, he's been keeping tabs on the Bat-family so careful observation would reveal that Red Robin no longer works with Batman in Gotham but is instead busy leading the Teen Titans. So really, there's nothing here to suggest that the Joker knows, beyond his own claim that he does.

Then again, if the Joker knows who Batman is, or knows who Red Hood is (the latter being a very likely possibility, as discussed above) THEN its very likely he knows who Red Robin is. It would be interesting to know what the Joker meant when he said he knew Red Robin's 'real name' though...did he mean 'Tim Drake', or did he mean Tim's unknown original last name?

They write Tim as omnisciently smart, he is the Hermione Granger of the DC universe, so if he doesn't believe the Joker knows their identities, is probably true, though I don't know how the Joker could do everything he is doing without knowing.

[bat39]

They write Tim as omnisciently smart, he is the Hermione Granger of the DC universe, so if he doesn't believe the Joker knows their identities, is probably true, though I don't know how the Joker could do everything he is doing without knowing.

Well, as I've explained in my original post, I believe there IS a plausible explanation for all of what he's been doing without his knowing their identities...

He kidnapped Alfred because of Bruce Wayne's connection to Batman Inc. He then lured Batgirl into an encounter by using Jim Gordon's wife as a hostage. He used Raya Vestri, a criminal who'd been captured by Nightwing, to lure him into a confrontation. He kidnapped Red Robin from the Titans base. He torments Red Hood with what little he'd learned about the street kid he manipulated into becoming the second Robin. It's all theoretically possible (though in Red Hood's case, its stretching things...)

[Dr. Hurt]

So... uh... I remember making a thread about this exact issue and saying that the joker specifically saw batman unmasked in RIP and questioning wtf Snyder is doing in this story.

Why was it deleted?

Anyway, i'm guessing Snyder is retconning Batman's story to fit his own storytelling agenda. So here we are: Does the Joker know? OMFG! We'll find out in the story's final issue where the villain will go on a huge overdramatic monologue that explains everything.

[bat39]

Going by Nightwing # 16, I'm starting to believe he DOESN'T know Nightwing's identity. He mentions how he deduced the connection between Nightwing and Haly's Circus by observing how Nightwing always showed up in the same city the circus was traveling through. If he knew the truth, he'd go out of his way to hint at how he established the connection by figuring out Nightwing's true identity...

Honestly, the way I see this going, the big 'revelation' of the Joker 'knowing' the Bat-family members is basically going to be that he knows all about the fears, their motivations, their personalities etc. inside out and can torment them that way...but he doesn't know their 'identities' per se. Just like how, in The Killing Joke, he taunts Batman about how 'something bad' must have happened to Batman once long ago to make him like this.

I mean, look at the way he's tormented the family so far. He knows that Nightwing is more trusting and compassionate than Batman and tends to surround himself with people and relationships, which is perhaps why he continues to remain in Gotham and be a part of the Bat-family. He knows that Red Hood is a troubled child of the streets who's lived his life surrounded by misery and tragedy, and who is prone to overwhelming rage and violence. He knows that Red Robin is the cool and logical one with mental skills rivaling Batman's who knows deep down inside that Batman is only tied down by sidekicks and so decided to strike out on his own. He knows that Robin looks up to Batman as a 'father figure' and harbors ambitions of becoming Batman one day.

He may not know their names (then again, he probably considers their code-names to be their 'real names'), but he knows who they are as people...I think that's the intent here.

[adkal]

Although he calls Nightwing 'Dickie', I'm, for now, ascribing that to the fear gas Dick was hit with moments beforehand...

[Conway]

Although he calls Nightwing 'Dickie', I'm, for now, ascribing that to the fear gas Dick was hit with moments beforehand...

Yeah I had to read that a couple times, I think it was Dick hallucinating his dead friend, Jimmy, the one that was Saiko. We see Raya show up with him (dressed as Nightwing) right after that and we watched her die in the last issue.

They didn't actually show Joker call him Dick.