Avengers #2 *Spoilers*

[ImmortalIronFist]

I agree he has a real big obsession with creation,evolution, perfection, and building. I really don't think it was meant for a Marvel now type reboot. Maybe a full on universe reboot it would make sense but it really doesn't work now.

I think it's working wonderfully. There's no reason to believe this creation myth is any more true than any other of the creation myths floating around.

[PupsOfWar]

It's like how all of the godly pantheons on Earth have different stories for how the Earth was created...and all of them are true and false at the same time. It's just another "birth of the universe" myth. Doesn't mean it's the correct one.

And I think I saw James Rhodes and Crystal's names highlighted when they were picking members. Maybe they show up in later arcs?

we still have 4-6 spots to fill other than the eighteen members we know about, so either of them could still be in the running for full membership, even.

[murdershewrote]

Yes. That makes total sense. Join the team of people who hit you in the face with a TREE. Brilliant. So clearly, Berto is suffering from brain damage caused by Thing. Glad we resolved that one.

And as for Sam, that Country Bumpkin jumped at the chance to lead a team again. As did Berto, rather than teaching kids in Young X-Men.
During Second Coming, it was dangerous to go fight Cameron Hodge's forces, and it would have been just as dangerous to sit on Utopia while they invaded. To say Scott endangered them, by requesting they fight is ridiculous. The lunatics with the armored suits and mechanized weapons are the ones to blame, not the man attempting to keep them alive. To be a mutant, is to be "at risk" because bigots are bigots and crazy... and really, since Sam was in charge, isn't Sam to blame for Karma's leg? That seems to be the general opinion lately. Blame the leader?

They fought the Beyonder, as teens, without prompting, as with most of their adventures. They were rarely called upon by the senior X-Men, but instead broke the rules and defied their respective head masters in favor of proving their own worth. Again, not cannon fodder, and certainly not lambs being lead to slaughter by Cyclops or whomever is leading that day.

Even Sam's alleged PTSD, brought on during the Rise of the New Mutants story arc, in which he and his teammates traversed Limbo (after having been sent on a retreat to recover by Cyclops) and fight its demonic hordes (at the forced behest of Illyana) and found himself traumatized by his own behavior in facing said opponents (killing them after enduring their torture). Sam wasn't cannon fodder. Sam was the cannon.

So he left Utopia to teach. And now he's quitting that for a better paycheck, after reading too many pages of Wolverine's dream journal?

Boo, Sam.
Boo, Berto.
They just need to get laid, and they'll be over it.

When members of the Avengers are injured or "damaged" do readers jump to blame Cap? Or Nick Fury? I'm genuinely curious.

At least you get money and fame with the Avengers? Girls and plenty of alcohol, courtesy of Stark? Yeah, not sure if you noticed, but my comment on Sam/Bobby was very tongue in cheek. It was a joke. A funny playing on the tendency of X-writers to see their extended cast as unnecessary wallpaper (and indeed often cannon fodder) in favor of propping up the same core characters. Just a question, have you read the issue yet, or were you going by my summary alone?

Either way, I don't get the vitriol against them. They stuck with the X-men during mutant's darkest hour and saw it through until the end - now that the immediate danger is over they decided they wanted to take a break from superheroing. As pretty much all major and minor x-men have done at one point or another in the past, including the 05, Kitty, etc. They weren't 'reading Wolverine's Diary' or blaming Scott. They just didn't want to superhero anymore. Actually, they immediately said no to Wolverine, only acquiesced when Captain America personally asked them to join. Because he's Cap, and because they're sick and tired of being seen as bad guys when they're trying to save the world, and would like to experience the cushy Avengers life for once. After all the bull they've been through, you can't really blame them.

[yanapryde]

My bad, Lansbury. My blunders.

Hug it out?

[murdershewrote]

My bad, Lansbury. My blunders.

Hug it out?

Haha, no problemo! It's my fault for tucking my jokes in actual factual exposition.

[stussyjones]

Spiderman is still broke????

[samson3191]

Definitely a "set-up" issue but it was still really solid. Great artwork, loved seeing more of the villains backstory, and Hickman managed to get a lot of people on the team in a short amount of time. Next issue is going to rock.

[Cryptid]

I had thought, when the first issue ended with the Avengers already assembled, that we would be spared an entire issue of house-calls, meet-cutes, and dialogue transparently designed to explain away continuity quibbles. I would rather have seen these flashbacks sprinkled into future issues as the individual characters take turns in the spotlight.

As things stand, we have the second first issue of Avengers, with virtually the same plot beats as the first first issue. Ex Nihilo continues to explain himself as he shells the earth with biological weapons. Steve and Tony continue to ponder the mysteries of a bigger team. And the issue concludes (again) with the whole team, sans prisoners, standing in the same place as if something is about to happen. And the last word of the voiceover in both issues is... "Avengers." My first thought: "And then they realized they were no longer little girls...they were little women."

The art is still sensational, but I wish Hickman would start telling this story instead of drenching it in portent. We've already seen Opena draw weaponized evolution -- both last issue and back when Archangel hatched this same scheme -- give the man something new to work with, other than cute panels of heroes in their civies.

[Desaad]

So everyone is ok with Hickman rewriting the 616 universe to fit his storyline. I wouldn't mind it so much except that it's probably going to disregard a lot of what others writers have laid the ground work for. Mark my words guys at one point or another one of his new origin plot will have to be questioned on why they did nothing during certain marvel events. That's why other writers don't write huge changing origin stories for fear of disrupting continuity. Like did aleph and unit ever meet. What about galactus and the watcher? and so forth.

He's not re-writing it. What isgoing to happen is he is going to reveal that the origin given this issue - the Gardners, the Builders, etc - that all happened in an alternate universe that is, for whatever reason, merging with the 616 MU.

Ex Nihilo likely doesn't even realize that things are merging, which is why the distinction wasn't made, but at some point they crossed into the MU on their travels.

[Free-Man]

we still have 4-6 spots to fill other than the eighteen members we know about, so either of them could still be in the running for full membership, even.

I think Rhodes at least is in Secret Avengers.

[Aaric Rivad]

I think this creation myth works as well as any of the others. I mean... at least it's got a basis in some sort of science fiction, and has the whole judgment angle. It sounds almost Kirby-esque, like the Celestials... if they hadn't been ruined through overuse. I mean, if you can buy a big flaming bird, what's so ridiculous about this?

I thought it was another good issue, bringing us steadily toward our conclusion. Enjoyed the way the team came together, almost like a caper movie. I do have to wonder: with Cannonball & Sunspot joining, are we going to have every X-Fan going through their scenes with a magnifying glass, just looking for things to bitch about? We're off to a great start so far!

[Moriarty]

I do have to wonder: with Cannonball & Sunspot joining, are we going to have every X-Fan going through their scenes with a magnifying glass, just looking for things to bitch about?

sadly yes. yes we are.

[motteditor]

If by "everything" you mean killing that waste-of-space-Hearts guy, her vibrator-for-a-husband, and/or a slew of unnamed innocent mutants?

You realize she didn't actually kill Jack of Hearts, right? And your perception of Vision is completely missing the point of the character.

[Free-Man]

Other than that, I enjoyed the list of names of former Avengers and trying to make out who everyone was. That said, I was annoyed that they name dropped Luke Cage. Again, why would they go to him instead of all the classic Avengers who they worked together with for years and years for? Luke Cage isn't suddenly like Cap, where he's got retroactive status as an Avengers founder.

Because Hickman likes laughing at people getting angry over utterly inconsequential nonsense.
I'm interested in seeing what were the upgrades Tony is giving Shang-Chi.

[drakeon]

A much better issue than the first one. I liked the individual character scenes, but I am still wary if all 24iish members will be handled well overtime and get enough characterization. The plot so far is a little thin and boring, and some of the character choices make no sense in-universe for an avengers building team, but Im willing to give the book some time to engage me.

The biggest gripe I had though was that Cap assembles this team to rescue his team from Mars, and is still sitting in the tower six hours later. If his goal is to rescue his friends why didnt he grab the most powerful heroes of earth together and just go rescue them. its not like he could only choose from the pre-selected roster he put together with Tony. If my friends were captured by evil space gods, I would try a bit harder to go have them resuced.