Wonder Woman #15 Discussion/Spoilers

**Rakzo** · 12-19-2012, 04:10 AM

It's good to see Cliff Chiang back on art duties that's for sure (Not that Tony Akins was doing a bad job).

Azzarello's portrayal of Orion is pretty enjoyable so far and I like how his trying to improve Diana's abilities thanks to Hephaestus' help. The first encounter between Diana and Orion was handled pretty well despite that their fight is not concluded yet. Plus, it seems like Zola and Hera are bonding, interested to see where that goes.

The dialogue keeps being typical Azzarello which mean good lines from each character and I'm intrigued about this new First Born character. I wonder what will be his role on the future?

**Auguste Dupin** · 12-19-2012, 04:28 AM

This issue was surprisingly funny. Spoilers from this point.

I mean, you have Orion being all "headbutts, bro" with a homeless dude from NY (granted, the guy was a semi god, but still), Zola and Hera having a remote fight Lennox being, well.....Lennox...
Speaking of which, is it just me or are they implying that he hunts childs of Zeus that turn "wrong" and kill/hurt them? Because if they do, well.....I would read the hell out of that book (granted, there isn't enough children of Zeus for that, but I suppose they could expand it to semi gods in general) . Lennox, semi god hunter FTW. The moment where he blows smoke at Orion's face was kind of badass as well.
Some strange relation seems to be going on between Zola and Hera, and the former points out flaws of the latter's usual behaviour ("why don't you just kill him instead? he's the one who cheated on you, not me".), and I find it interesting that Hera seems to have never even considered the idea. Are we moving toward some form of redemption for Hera?
Milan has.....interesting powers. Not sure what was that thing he did in the end though. As for the Orion/Diana fight, well, it seems to be based on the classic misunderstanding (considering that Diana isn't the last child of Zeus, as Orion is lead to believe), but the fight has yet to be shown.
Overall, interesting as usual. The book moves at his own pace, and while it would be a lie to pretend it's fast paced, it would also be a lie to pretend it's slow paced the way the first arc of Justice League was. Lots of plots are moving foward but none really reach their climax so far, which may give a sensation that "nothing happens". But it is little more than a sensation.

**Sacred Knight** · 12-19-2012, 04:41 AM

I totally think we're moving toward Hera being portrayed as more "good"--as much as good or bad applies to the gods--the longer she is with the WW gang. From being around them, possibly witnessing future heroism by them all, to being a mortal herself now, I think its going to give her a new perspective in time. If this were the Scooby Gang I think she's going to become their Anya, in a sense.

**swatkat** · 12-19-2012, 05:18 AM

Not enough Diana.

Seriously. I thoroughly enjoyed this issue - Orion's arrival, Milan, the hilariously odd couple that is Zola and Hera (Hera is growing on me; much like Strife, I think), the Firstborn - but this is Diana's book and I want more Diana. She was fabulous in it, the bits we saw of her - her compassion, her occasional temper, her wicked sense of humour (room service for Hera, ahaha), her stubborn defense of Lennox - but I want, no, I DEMAND more. /throws tantrum

**slvn** · 12-19-2012, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin

This issue was surprisingly funny. Spoilers from this point.
I mean, you have Orion being all "headbutts, bro" with a homeless dude from NY (granted, the guy was a semi god, but still)

I'm glad Tunneler and The Man from Room X pointed out on the preview thread that Milan is based on singer-songwriter Wesley Willis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Willis), who described his art as "joyrides" and his schizophrenic episodes, in which he saw demons, as "hellrides." Even the drawings taped to a wall of the "stanktum" seem to be based on Willis's cityscapes. Knowing that there's a real person behind this strange character adds dimension, somehow.

, Zola and Hera having a remote fight

That was fun. I also liked the "nature...nurture" part of their conversation, which seemed to refer back to the Cassandra's description in 14 of how the First Born was raised by wildlife. It seems like in the weirdest way Zola and Hera might have the basis for a bond as two mothers who have lost their infants. Still, I wonder if Zola plans to "accidentally" lose Hera in the city. I was surprised Zola would take Hera out after Diana asked her to keep the queen in--but then, Zola is pretty independent-minded.

Some readers are going to be wondering more about where Diana's money comes from, considering that she feels comfortable telling Hera to cut loose with room service.

Lennox being, well.....Lennox...

IT seemed like something of a return to the Constantine-like Lennox of issues 5 and 6 (but a little darker now), after Lennox had, it seems to me, taken more of a Ben Grimm turn. Maybe it's because he can hear Siracca again?

Remember how the dog-faced woman fiercely attacked Lennox in 10, and some of us were wondering what he had done to earn the wrath of the Furies? Now it seems he did something to harm one of his siblings...

The lines about how Diana seemed to be letting Lennox control her, but there were really older forces at work, were...interesting. Puzzling. It seems like it refers to more than Hephaestus, but I don't get it yet.

I was thinking I wouldn't be happy about the "wonder swords," but now I might be OK with them--it seems like Heph just wanted to let more power come through the bracers so she won't have to take them off--either because god mode is inherently dangerous, or because Heph is worried that the Olympians will act against Diana if they see her using it again. Swords are probably Heph's idea, as a man and a weapon smith, of how Diana's power should manifest--not necessarily her idea. Nice to see Heph seems to care about Diana, after he didn't really speak up for her at the Pool Party of the Gods.

I like Heph's line about Hippolyta speaking from the heart. Is this a hint that a more positive side of Hippolyta is going to be shown?

**Don-Jack** · 12-19-2012, 05:49 AM

So the "God mode" is explored again, but now it's canalized by the swords or something like that? THAT'S cool!!!
(I didn't read yet.)

**swatkat** · 12-19-2012, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Don-Jack

So the "God mode" is explored again, but now it's canalized by the swords or something like that? THAT'S cool!!!
(I didn't read yet.)

Sort of. It's really cool. As Diana herself says, 'Woah.'

slvn -

I like Heph's line about Hippolyta speaking from the heart. Is this a hint that a more positive side of Hippolyta is going to be shown?

I do think it's hinting at the eventual reconciliation. I don't have words for how much I want it.

**slvn** · 12-19-2012, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Don-Jack

So the "God mode" is explored again, but now it's canalized by the swords or something like that? THAT'S cool!!!
(I didn't read yet.)

Sort of--after "tinkering" by Heph, the cuffs apparently cause swords to materialize when Diana is under threat. I'm just guessing that this is because Heph doesn't want Diana to have to take the cuffs off.

**Outside_85** · 12-19-2012, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by slvn

Sort of--after "tinkering" by Heph, the cuffs apparently cause swords to materialize when Diana is under threat. I'm just guessing that this is because Heph doesn't want Diana to have to take the cuffs off.

It could also be Heph's assumption that Diana will run into Ares in the not too distant future, and possibly with Dionysus in close pursuit.

**slvn** · 12-19-2012, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Outside_85

It could also be Heph's assumption that Diana will run into Ares in the not too distant future, and possibly with Dionysus in close pursuit.

True. It could be kind of a combination--if Dio sees Diana unleash her full power against Orion or whoever, he'll report that back to Apollo and there'll be a greater chance that the Olympians will think Diana is a threat that they have to act against. Here's a more longshot possibility: "Hephaestus" in this issue is actually War in disguise. He might want to get swords in Diana's hands as part of his plan to groom her as his successor. (I doubt it, because this Heph really sounds like the Heph we've seen and heard before. But I thought it was an interesting enough possibility to mention. I can imagine War having a soft spot for Hippolyta and wanting Diana to understand her motives--even if Hippolyta is not her daughter.)

Also, I wonder if Cassandra is the demigod sibling to whom Lennox apparently did something bad. Because of the Antarctic cold, we haven't seen Cassandra unbundled yet--she could be disfigured or something.

Still thinking about the cuffs and swords. It's almost like males giving Wonder Woman swords is a motif of the run--War in #0, the male centaur (by dropping his sword) in #1, and Heph in #8 and now here. It becomes kind of a cool motif if you think of it, along with making War look like Azzarello and the title "All-Girl Adventure Stories for Men," as a kind of meta-fictional or even self-critical observation about how male creative teams give Diana "masculine" weapons or make her into a masculine idea of a warrior.

I don't think I'd want materializing the swords to become a regular thing, because then they probably would trump the lasso as her main weapons--especially if they're special swords, as one might assume. I wouldn't mind seeing her be able to channel god power through the cuffs in a range of ways, though (including swords along with shields, lightning blasts, supercharging the lasso, or whatever) as long as she doesn't become too much of a "Silver Lantern."

Originally Posted by swatkat

She was fabulous in it, the bits we saw of her - her compassion, her occasional temper...

I like that she apologizes for losing her temper just for telling Zola and Hera to stop it. She obviously expects herself to keep a tight grip on her temper. What Superman says in the JL 15 preview may apply here too; she may really need to let herself "unplug" a little.

By the way, I agree we could have seen more of her, though honestly, she made enough of an impression and seemed central enough to the book that I didn't notice her fairly small number of panels until you mentioned it. What I'd really like to see if her taking a little more control of the situation--but then again, if I saw that right now, I'd be a little sad, because I'd think we were getting close to resolution and the end of the story and the run.

Brettc1, I'm curious--if you've read the issue--did you think that it made reasonably efficient use of space and words (more than some of the issues you've criticized on that score in the past)? To me, it seemed to have a pretty high panel per page ratio, only one or two splash pages, and a good bit of dialogue.

**Desaad** · 12-19-2012, 07:32 AM

Great issue.

So far, a pretty flawless portrayal of Orion, too. I am...shocked that there is some dimension to his character, actually.

...Incredibly optimistic. And makes me want to see an Azz written New Gods title something fierce, because while he's not necessarily my first choice as a sci fi idea man, it's the character work that is hardest for writers to get hold of.

**mdg1** · 12-19-2012, 07:56 AM

Not crazy about the swords. Not because they are new powers, but because they strongly remind me of the alternate Diana from Planetary.

**WhitOro** · 12-19-2012, 07:59 AM

Cliff Chang should seriously clone himself a couple of times so that we could have him every issue. Every character just looks simply BETTER than when others join in. The First Born actually looks like a creepy battle-forged formidable foe, as when Aktins was on duty he seemed just some big hobo with a bad skin problem.

I vote Hera and Zola "She started it" Panel of the Year.

**swatkat** · 12-19-2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by slvn

By the way, I agree we could have seen more of her, though honestly, she made enough of an impression and seemed central enough to the book that I didn't notice her fairly small number of panels until you mentioned it. What I'd really like to see if her taking a little more control of the situation--but then again, if I saw that right now, I'd be a little sad, because I'd think we were getting close to resolution and the end of the story and the run.

What can I say, I'm greedy! The way Azzarello writes Diana herself (the way Chiang draws her) is the best thing about this title, and I want more. I don't think her rushing to take control of the situation when larger powers are at work is in any way a good idea -- it's a bid that would fail right now, and Diana knows it. That's why she's waiting and watching. But 22 pages are simply not enough, augh.