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  1. #151
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Does it surprise you? All Star Superman was essentially PC Superman-ish, but with some great stories. New Superman is also closer to PC levels then he has been in nearly 30 years.
    I hope "PC" doesn't catch on as an abbreviation for pre-Crisis. Hopefully, "P" being also the first letter of "post" is enough to prevent it.

  2. #152
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa
    Have I made it clear to you that I dislike and disrespect you on a personal level, consider nothing you say or think to be of value, and will not reply to anything that you say except in this manner? I have no intention to debate with you.
    Except stuff you say is worth responding to.

    Maggin did not write in the Silver Age, he wrote in the Bronze Age. And several writers-Jerry Siegel in particular-wrote stories in the Silver Age that despite some of the silliness of the time had real caring and a real soul to them.
    So did the Post Crisis comics, save for Steven T. Seagle who outright said that he wasn't a Superman fan multiple times during his tenure and afterwards. To think that only the Pre-Crisis comics and Grant Morrison's run are the only ones, is to show bias and a lack of understanding.

    And it is not like the Post-Crisis comics were of some superior and inspired level. They were very average comics and the sales of them reflected that. No one will be talking about the editorialship of whoever edited those books in 50 years like they do about Mort.
    People still talk about Carlin and Berganza, as much as they do Schwartz and Mort in terms of editorial. In terms of writing, people have and will think of Byrne, Wolfman, Jurgens, Ordway, Stern, Simonson, Waid, Johns, Morrison, Loeb, Kelly, Casey, Michellene, Millar, Rucka, Busiek, Kessel, JMS and Robinson.

    I found him to be very shallow and boring because there he had no real pain, loss or issues. Everything was too easy for him-he never suffered, not really. I just can't get into a character that has it all and then some. To me, it's not compelling.
    Nothing was easy for Clark in the Post Crisis continuity. He had trouble taking Luthor down. He had to deal with Lana wanting something more out of him, than he could offer back to her. He had trouble earning Lois's respect as Clark Kent. He knew what it was like to see a life taken in front of him, when his vision powers showed him the effect of death. When he was fifteen, he was unable to save a classmate who drank and drove into a tree, becoming brain dead. He had guilt from what he did to the Pocket Universe Kryptonians, which he carried with him for years. He felt alone for years until Kara entered his life and then they were at odds with each other. He carried the burden of not being alive to prevent Coast City's destruction. He questioned his leadership skills when everyone looked to him when he was in the JLA. He felt guilt for the destruction of Topeka and his inability to prevent that.

    Even Byrne admitted that by getting rid of Superboy he made his character into a defacto Superboy. He did not seem like a parental figure to me and the Pre-Crisis Superman did.
    No, but he acted like a big brother to Conner and Tim when they teamed up. He was a father when he was taking care of Chris. He had that protective father mentality when it came to Kara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    Amazing how a threa directly about Scott Snyder leads to talk about The Dark Knight Returns, Pre Crisis vs post Crisis and Clark Kent when a Justice League discussion in the WW forums does.
    Because in said interview, Snyder talks about TDKR and referred to Superman as Clark. Someone here got in a snit about it.

  3. #153
    Colourist wannabe Predabot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    It was a decent interview - liked the insights from Snyder on how he sees the characters. I wonder what he thinks of For Tomorrow which is probably the most interesting Superman story in recent years.
    I really hope he dislikes it quite a bit, because it's one of the most boring Superman-stories of all time.

    Probably Azzarello's worst work of his entire career, to boot.

  4. #154
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    No, but he acted like a big brother to Conner and Tim when they teamed up. He was a father when he was taking care of Chris. He had that protective father mentality when it came to Kara.
    Those are all pretty long after Byrne.

  5. #155
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Those are all pretty long after Byrne.
    I didn't say otherwise. The statement wasn't centered around just Byrne's run, but the character in general. The plan had changed because of editorial which is why his Superman was still learning how to deal with issues seven years after his public debut.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    I didn't say otherwise. The statement wasn't centered around just Byrne's run, but the character in general.
    Byrne said his character. Meaning, the character he wrote. Byrne did not have future-seeing powers.

  7. #157
    Astral God Surtur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    I hope "PC" doesn't catch on as an abbreviation for pre-Crisis. Hopefully, "P" being also the first letter of "post" is enough to prevent it.
    It's already caught on. Most of the time when I see people say "PC Supes" they mean pre crisis. Now that there is not only a post crisis Superman but a New Universe Superman I expect it might change though.
    A woman can move a lot faster with her skirt up than a man can with his pants down.

  8. #158
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    It's already caught on. Most of the time when I see people say "PC Supes" they mean pre crisis. Now that there is not only a post crisis Superman but a New Universe Superman I expect it might change though.
    I'd never seen it used before you. How could you tell the difference between PC Superman and PC Superman? (pre and post) The idea seems kind of poorly thought out.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatmetropolitan View Post
    I love that he calls him Clark. That's his name! He wasn't raised getting called Kal-el or Superman. His name is Clark.
    I agree. While I do prefer the concept of him wearing glasses and acting differently as Clark, I still see Clark as real, to some degree, just with the powers, alien heritage, and heroism hidden. The Kents treated him as their own son and named him like they would their own baby. It's not like they're actors he hired as part of some elaborate cover.
    People who chime in on vs. threads with "I don't like Superman at all, but he'd win.", STOP HELPING! Superman doesn't need your damning him with faint praise, thank you.

  10. #160
    Guardian of Love Sailor Moon's Avatar
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    I thought PC was politically correct when I first read it. I'm a bad superhero fan

  11. #161
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Byrne said his character. Meaning, the character he wrote. Byrne did not have future-seeing powers.
    I was referring to Kurosawa's assessment of Post Crisis Superman. Not Byrne's statement that he made after his run was over.

  12. #162
    evil maybe, genius no stk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    I was referring to Kurosawa's assessment of Post Crisis Superman. Not Byrne's statement that he made after his run was over.
    Why do you do that? You shift what's being talked about without telling anyone. You responded to Kurosawa relating Byrne's statement. That is what you quoted. How is anyone supposed to realize your response is then talking about something different than what you quoted? You did the same with the Julie Schwartz Bronze Age thing. You quote something and respond to it, I say, "What?" and you say, "That wasn't what I was talking about." It's confusing.

  13. #163
    14 Time Rita's Champion SUPERECWFAN1's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see this. Snyder/Lee should do an awesome Superman series.
    "Heads up-- If Havok's position in UA #5 really upset you, it's time to drown yourself hobo piss. Seriously, do it. It's the only solution." - Rick Remender

    Sucks 200 character limit.

  14. #164
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stk View Post
    Why do you do that? You shift what's being talked about without telling anyone. You responded to Kurosawa relating Byrne's statement. That is what you quoted. How is anyone supposed to realize your response is then talking about something different than what you quoted?
    I never shifted anything. Yes, I did include the Byrne part, but only as part of the whole discussion. It should have been obvious that I was talking about beyond just Byrne. That is not my fault that you assumed I was only talking about Byrne's run.

    You did the same with the Julie Schwartz Bronze Age thing. You quote something and respond to it, I say, "What?" and you say, "That wasn't what I was talking about." It's confusing.
    Which still doesn't change that Silver and Bronze were and as of eight years ago, apparently is still interchangeable.
    Last edited by Mat001; 12-22-2012 at 12:07 PM.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    I never shifted anything. Yes, I did include the Byrne part, but only as part of the whole discussion. It should have been obvious that I was talking about beyond just Byrne.
    YOU were. But then it makes the quote kind of pointless.

    edit: never mind. Who cares.
    Last edited by stk; 12-22-2012 at 02:52 PM.

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