Fraction and Odin

[seekquaze]

It wasn't hooey at all. No different than Odin or Skyfather #618352, Galactus would die when that universe ends. His entire purpose to help create that universe at the cost of his life when the time comes. Using the life seed, Galactus would've been able to prevent the next universe, truly living forever..

Odin's speech implied the gods would survive the death of the universe or were more immortal than Galactus. That godhood is superior to what Galactus is. That is the part that is hooey. Galactus is already immortal and in all likelihood will live to the end of the universe which is a lot longer than most gods.

Odin is the King of Asgard, not the omniscient ruler or of the realm and all that encompasses it. There are some rules even he is forced to abide by. One of them being a rule established by Bor that the brothers could not kill each other. Yggdrasill then informed Odin that his son would be destined to die to truly end his brother.

I know that. The point was Fraction already showed Thor easily resurrecting Loki and Odin from the dead. If Thor can do it there is no reason to think why Odin could not do the same. So Odin's fretting over Thor's death does not make sense. It was the rule Fraction established contrary to other writers. Have Thor kill Cul then resurrect him. If you are going to establish resurrection as easy, but then try to make death an issue give a reason why.

[jackolover]

Odin's actions against Thor were not always to teach him something. Sometimes it is to try and force Thor to stay in Asgard when Thor chooses Earth. Sometimes it is for the good of Asgard. Other times its has not been. Odin has always had his moments where he is a massive angry jerk. I fully admit that. What I dislike about Fraction's Odin is that he always came across as that and unfortunately many modern readers base their idea of what Odin is like on this. Like I said there have been times where Odin has regretted his actions. One time during a battle with Hercules Odin stripped Thor of half his strength out of anger. Thor refused to give up but still lost. Odin later regretted his actions and apologized to Thor. Other times Odin has reacted in anger only to rethink his decisions, realize he messed up, and makes amends in some way.



Perhaps, being human we relate more to the physical and understand it better. Galactus once fought the In-betweener and the fight was a mix of energy beams and fisticuffs. At the same time Odin's battle with Thanos was mostly energy blasts and you could practically feel it from the artwork. Coipel's artwork was more than satisfactory and about the only saving grace of that scene. It was still a disappointment for what was supposed to be a battle between two-nigh omnipotent beings especially when one is supposed to be a battle hardened warrior, god of wisdom, and master tactician to choose an attack that damages him so much.



Possible, but again that is something I wish Fraction had conveyed better. When I read Fear Itself all I got was Odin was afraid of Thor dying and not the family fighting. By establishing Thor able to raise family members from the dead with ease, a power Thor has never demonstrated before, Fraction opened up that as a rule under his writing. If Thor can do it there is no reason to think Odin cannot do it which makes fearing Thor dying pointless. Other writers have shown Odin can bring back the dead, but only with great difficulty requiring either all of his power or a bargain of some sort. If that had been under the pen of another writer that Thor could revive the dead easily then I could see Fraction ignoring that and choosing to make death something Odin could not easily reverse. That possibility was thrown out when Fraction chose to have Thor revive Loki and Odin with wase.



No, Thor was not king. Balder was king. Thor sacrificed the Odinforce to fight Bor and repair Mjolnir. Balder stated Asgard could not be moved without it. That is one reason Asgard fared poorly during SIEGE. There was no Odinforce. The Odinforce only returned with Odin who hated the idea of relying on mortals.



That is one of Fraction's ideas that to me read like he was going somewhere with it and then decided to drop it. Thor, for a reason that still does not make sense, decided the only way to prevent the battle between Asgard and the World-Eaters from destroying the Earth was to follow some weird advice from a quantum physicist to slice space/time with a giant sword. Wounding the World Tree caused something of a reboot or cleansing that for some reason trapped the World-Eaters within it, or in another dimension, or made them more bound to the World Tree, or something I could never fully understand despite reading it twice. The Tree was stated by the physicist to be some sort of quantum bridge uniting the nine worlds.

Why Thor decided to would the world tree is beyond me. The physicist did not understand the mystical properties of the World Tree and thought the Asgardians assumed there were only nine dimensions instead of close to infinite. A fact most of them already know. Asgard was winning or at least stalemating the battle against the World-Eaters and so far neither side had unleashed weapons that would risk consuming the entire world. Cutting a hole in space/time usually comes off a a bad idea or at least a level of desperation they were not yet at. Why the World-Eaters were thrown into the center of the tree..or something is still beyond me.

Sorry. I got off on a tangent. The World-Eaters ranks up as one of the worst stories I have ever read period. Anyway, it was something Fraction appeared to be developing and I think the Tree was repaired in the first arc of Mighty Thor. Cul's origin story implied the Tree might have some control over Fate or intelligent in its own way, but like many ideas it was never fully developed.

Thanks for all those corrections and elaborations.

[jackolover]

It is interesting, about death and Yggdrasill.

Why wasn't Hela involved with Thors death in Fear Itself? For one, she has been pining for eternity to get a hold of Thor herself, and this was the time it would happen. No Hela? Supposedly, Hela is just some caretaker of a revolving door for the Asgardians?

If Yggdrasill can determine rules of death between gods, and what they can and can't do, why was Thor able to resurrect all the gods in JMS's run? Supposedly Ragnarok is a proviso to the Yggdrasill rule. After Ragnorak, all the gods naturally resurrect because that was the cycle imposed by the Ones Above All, ( who are now disconnected from that cycle).

I am led to some conclusion that Yggdrasill is some Eternity figure, and Hela is just somebody who inherited a backwater place where the gods just stay for a holiday. I don't know why the God of War is still there with Hela, when everybody else is back in reality?

[seekquaze]

Why wasn't Hela involved with Thors death in Fear Itself? For one, she has been pining for eternity to get a hold of Thor herself, and this was the time it would happen. No Hela? Supposedly, Hela is just some caretaker of a revolving door for the Asgardians?

Good question. Ask Fraction. Thor should have gone either to Valhalla or Hela's realm. He didn't because the wound from the World Tree erased him, but still that is one reason death for gods is even more fickly for superheroes and why I think writers made it near impossible for Odin to resurrect the dead. Gods know what happens after you die.

Hela's role is caretaker for the Asgardian dead. It isn't meant to be a revolving door though for some it is. It depends on how important you are I guess. There is some evidence that while gods do not require mortal belief for power or to maintain their existence enough mortal belief can return a god from the dead. That is one possible reaon why major gods are harder to kill. They are more well known. Stories being told about the gods may be enough.

If Yggdrasill can determine rules of death between gods, and what they can and can't do, why was Thor able to resurrect all the gods in JMS's run? Supposedly Ragnarok is a proviso to the Yggdrasill rule. After Ragnorak, all the gods naturally resurrect because that was the cycle imposed by the Ones Above All, ( who are now disconnected from that cycle).

That bit about mortal belief resurrecting gods I stated above. That was JMS's reason. Mortals wanted Thor so he had the chance to come back. Thor presence on Earth made people think about and remember Asgard granting it the possibility of returning. As for the World Tree, ask Fraction. I don't know where he was going with it and it feels like a storyline he abrubtly dropped or did not think out.

I am led to some conclusion that Yggdrasill is some Eternity figure, and Hela is just somebody who inherited a backwater place where the gods just stay for a holiday. I don't know why the God of War is still there with Hela, when everybody else is back in reality?

I wouldn't put too much into Yggdrasil being an Eternity figure until another writer explores it further. For now it is what it has always been, that which connects the nine worlds. It may be something like a computer that can store information and helps maintain rules of reality, but I wouldn't ascribe any intelligence to it. Hela did not inherit a backwater place. It is where beings in the nine worlds go when they die. Tyr is still dead because he is now married to Hela and chose to stay there. Fraction wanted him out of the way so he came up with a flimsy reason to kill him. Gillen made the most of it. Or maybe Gillen wanted him and that is why Fraction used a flimsy reason to kill him. Either way, Hel is the true afterlife for the dead of the nine worlds save those that go to Odin's Valhalla. Even then Hel being a neutral place has its own heaven for the worthy. Fraction's take otherwise does not jive with what every other writer out there has done.