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  1. #976
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    When I think about it some more, I don't know that crossovers really are the same sort of issue as continuity, I think it's just a budget issue. If you have a Superman/Batman team-up taking place in four issues of Superman, nobody minds. If you have that same team up with two parts in Superman and two parts in Batman, people get uptight, because now they have to buy books they wouldn't ordinarily buy.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  2. #977
    Senior Member UsagiTsukino's Avatar
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    Why is it that there are many fanartist that are better than Comic artists maybe they should hire than. Who are your dream team people you would want Dc to hire.

  3. #978
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UsagiTsukino View Post
    Why is it that there are many fanartist that are better than Comic artists maybe they should hire than. Who are your dream team people you would want Dc to hire.
    There are many fan artist that are great but when you look at their work they are poster pinups not really story board work (though it seems over the last few years quite a few of those have worked their way into the industry) plus their is a limitation of time. Many fan artists spend days or weeks working on that one right pose or picture. Comic artists have to produce 22 or more pages in a month with backgrounds from someone else story. Some fan artist might have what it takes to make it in the industry but not all of them do or are willing to learn how to (considering that for a starting artist pay isn't really that great)
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  4. #979

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    We're not entirely sure how much continuity heavy stories turned off casual readers. It might have to a degree, but I don't think it was as bad as it seems.



    All of those shows, save for "Melrose Place" did crossover with each other as they were spin offs of one another. "The Colbys" was a spin off of "Dynasty" and characters and story arcs tended to crossover. The same was true of "Dallas" and "Knots Landing". Even Daytime soaps started to get in on that back in 2001, with characters crossing over on the ABC line of soaps and a two part story that started on "All My Children" and continued into "One Life To Live". As well as one character being related to characters on both shows and "General Hospital". All to strong ratings at the time. Recently when OLTL ended, a few characters from that show moved over to GH, which is still on the air today. So yes, there were indeed crossovers. The Prime Time soaps only ended because of falling ratings and escalating budgets, when the 90's began. With "Melrose Place" being one of the few that cropped up in the 90's and had a lengthy run. "Dallas" regained its popularity with reruns on The Nashville Network in the mid 90's, leading to two TV-Movies that wrapped up dangling plots and then the current series on TNT, which continues those stories with new actors playing the younger generation of characters while the older guard returned.
    When it comes to correlation between continuity and casual readers, my guy is Dwayne McDuffie. There's an incidence, continuity used t be light when there were a lot of casual readers and they went away as it became heavy, there might be other factors, but I consider that unlikely.

    I'm a aware of crossovers and spin offs in TV. In fact, you should google McDuffies "6 degrees of St. Elsewhere". Apparently half the shows share a continuity, however impossible that is: Superman is both a fictional and a real character in Static, Seinfeld is Paul's neighbor in Mad About You, a show that George and Susan used to watch :S.

    Keep in mind that my comment wasn't that there were no crossovers on TV, but that the primetime dramas I've seen, including Melrose and Dallas, have full story structures despite the ongoing situations. I don't know about daytime, but there's a reason they have less budget and get a lot less respect.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  5. #980
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennsim View Post
    When I think about it some more, I don't know that crossovers really are the same sort of issue as continuity, I think it's just a budget issue. If you have a Superman/Batman team-up taking place in four issues of Superman, nobody minds. If you have that same team up with two parts in Superman and two parts in Batman, people get uptight, because now they have to buy books they wouldn't ordinarily buy.
    Well, it depends. Take the crossover between Superman and Detective Comics, from about ten years ago. There the story started in one and ended in the other and it was a Superman centric story. I think in the matter of that story, if you really want to see the conclusion, then it shouldn't matter that you had to be Detective for one month. Especially if you were reading the Superman title for at least a year.

  6. #981
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Well, it depends. Take the crossover between Superman and Detective Comics, from about ten years ago. There the story started in one and ended in the other and it was a Superman centric story. I think in the matter of that story, if you really want to see the conclusion, then it shouldn't matter that you had to be Detective for one month. Especially if you were reading the Superman title for at least a year.
    Yeah that becomes a problem for some people that have a set pull list or order their books online. If the story jumps titles it's a real pain to track down that other title if you missed it or the shop doesn't have a copy when you go back for it (after reading at the end of Superman that it's continued in Detective Comics, remember most casual readers don't scout the Previews for these things but buy what's in their pull or on the stand) I've been running into that problem with both the current Superman and Justice League Crossovers as I don't normally pull Supergirl (though I'm considering adding it) or Aquaman (Not really interested in it at all) I keep having to go to Comixology and get the particular missing issues. I do feel in a way it does alienate the casual reader being forced to buy or search for issues that they wouldn't normally get simply because a crossover event is decided to go into a book they really have no interest in picking up.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

  7. #982
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    I could get behind a strategy that limited crossovers to only happening within a single book. I would think there would always be at least one house ad that would normally be running that month that could be substituted for one that pushed the book(s) of the guest characters. So in my example, the Superman/Batman team-up might all be in the Superman book, but there would be a big ad for Batman's books in each issue. And in the Batman books those months there would be an ad pointing out that Batman was also appearing in Superman in the particular issues. In other words, keep the story in one series and use the advertising to push sales of other books.

    If needed and desired, you could also plan on a reversed crossover later with a separate story.
    The DC relaunch was successful and was executed in what was most likely the best way it could given restrictions we wouldn't know about. No, your idea wouldn't have worked. Now move on.

  8. #983

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Well, it depends. Take the crossover between Superman and Detective Comics, from about ten years ago. There the story started in one and ended in the other and it was a Superman centric story. I think in the matter of that story, if you really want to see the conclusion, then it shouldn't matter that you had to be Detective for one month. Especially if you were reading the Superman title for at least a year.
    I think you're assuming that everybody has your budget and your reading time. To people trying to control it, that kind of thing is annoying. Keep in mind that people who buy comics are a minority and people who have large pull lists are even less.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  9. #984
    Senior Member UsagiTsukino's Avatar
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    Am I the only one thinking that Dc will wind up paying big time for the fact that they have fired and replaced to many writers. The editors seem like jerks from what I can tell. Dc is not giving time for new comics to sell and quick replac the writers. That got them in trouble for the wonder woman relaunch in 2006. They will not learn their lesson. They will someday. What can be done about the editors because if this keeps up this will be the downfall of Dc success. The editors need to leave the writers alone especially the ones we like. Look what happened to Gail. Is she still going to be the writer? From what I'm hearing she doesn't want to deal with the editor when offer the change to do Bop. Is there anyway to deal with there jerks?

  10. #985
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    This is all shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic isn't it?

  11. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    This is all shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic isn't it?
    Yeah, DC is about to close doors. The higher share market they have now than before is just a way of people messing with them.

  12. #987
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadenewt View Post
    Yeah that becomes a problem for some people that have a set pull list or order their books online. If the story jumps titles it's a real pain to track down that other title if you missed it or the shop doesn't have a copy when you go back for it (after reading at the end of Superman that it's continued in Detective Comics, remember most casual readers don't scout the Previews for these things but buy what's in their pull or on the stand) I've been running into that problem with both the current Superman and Justice League Crossovers as I don't normally pull Supergirl (though I'm considering adding it) or Aquaman (Not really interested in it at all) I keep having to go to Comixology and get the particular missing issues. I do feel in a way it does alienate the casual reader being forced to buy or search for issues that they wouldn't normally get simply because a crossover event is decided to go into a book they really have no interest in picking up.
    More often than not, comic stores have books like Detective Comics and Justice League. Same with the newsstands back in the day. And I don't believe it would be that hard to track down if you wanted to read the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099
    I think you're assuming that everybody has your budget and your reading time. To people trying to control it, that kind of thing is annoying. Keep in mind that people who buy comics are a minority and people who have large pull lists are even less.
    This isn't about my budget abilities. Anyone who has a reasonable budget can fit it in, even at today's prices and today's economy. If they can't, then they shouldn't be reading comics if their money is that tight. If you're budgeting ten to twenty dollars, for every two week pay period in a month, then you can swing it. Same with thirty and forty years ago.

  13. #988

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    This isn't about my budget abilities. Anyone who has a reasonable budget can fit it in, even at today's prices and today's economy. If they can't, then they shouldn't be reading comics if their money is that tight. If you're budgeting ten to twenty dollars, for every two week pay period in a month, then you can swing it. Same with thirty and forty years ago.
    I'm not sure I'm getting you right. You seem to claim something like "comics should be done only for those who cant commit to them". Which, in my opinion would be a terrible idea (casual readers are a bigger market) and goes against the diversifying principle that is one of the basics of business management.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  14. #989

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    This isn't about my budget abilities. Anyone who has a reasonable budget can fit it in, even at today's prices and today's economy. If they can't, then they shouldn't be reading comics if their money is that tight. If you're budgeting ten to twenty dollars, for every two week pay period in a month, then you can swing it. Same with thirty and forty years ago.
    I'm not sure I'm getting you right. You seem to claim something like "comics should be done only for those who cant commit to them". Which, in my opinion would be a terrible idea (casual readers are a bigger market) and goes against the diversifying principle that is one of the basics of business management.
    Characters: Elongated Man, Batman, Satellite JLA, Super Buddies, Sandman, Swamp Thing
    Writers: Moore, Gaiman, Cooke, Giffen/DeMatteis, Miller, Dini, Morrison, Waid, Meltzer, McDuffie, Barr, Englehart

  15. #990
    Tai'shar Manetheren Jadenewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    More often than not, comic stores have books like Detective Comics and Justice League. Same with the newsstands back in the day. And I don't believe it would be that hard to track down if you wanted to read the story.
    That's fine and dandy when the crossover is in Detective or Justice League.. But what happens when a story is continued in I, Vampire or Grifter? (Like the JLDark and Stormwatch issues last year? Most shops only order enough of low selling titles to cover subscribers so If there is a crossover into one of those titles there you are without a book and scrambling to find it.
    D-Deadman! You killed Deadman!!

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