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  1. #76
    Loading cactusmaac's Avatar
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    And again, the Year One Batman seems much closer to the Nolan take than the O'Neill\Adams 70s character. I don't see that version doing the interrogation scenes with Flass, Falcone and Moroni.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  2. #77
    Veteran Member Fate's Faith's Avatar
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    I felt the same. I went into TDK and DKR assuming Miller was the bigger influence after seeing Begins. I just don't see O'Neill/Adams. In fact, I think we've lost a good portion of the detective aspect of Batman over the years.

  3. #78
    Not worth listening to Perkele's Avatar
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    Snyder's current Batman run definitely isn't his strongest work. Swamp Thing and American Vampire are both a lot better if you ask me, or even the stuff with Dick as Batman. But it's still good enough to keep me reading, even if I'm not counting down the days to read the next comic, like I was with Morrison's Batman.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    And again, the Year One Batman seems much closer to the Nolan take than the O'Neill\Adams 70s character. I don't see that version doing the interrogation scenes with Flass, Falcone and Moroni.
    Batman Begins draws more from "The Man Who Falls" than Year One. The James Bond aesthetics, Ra's Al Ghul, the sane/altruistic personality. It's all there.

  5. #80
    All Caste Warrior JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    I tried to avoid this because apparently there is no middle ground with this arc, you either hate it or compare it to great literature.
    Actually there is plenty of middle ground with it. I don't hate it but I also don't think it's "great literature". I fall somewhere in the middle on it. There are parts I think are brilliant but other parts that I think could have used more work and a lighter touch. Doesn't prevent me from enjoying the book though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    There's plenty of middle ground, the problem is that a lot of people here try to paint anyone remotely critical as this irrational "Snyder hater" so it just appears otherwise.
    Seems to be a problem on both sides actually. I'm as middle of the road as you can get with his work and I oftentimes feel that people who are critical of it are labling me as a "Snyder lover" just because I point out things that I like about the book and because I happen to enjoy it for the most part despite the problems that are there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Honestly, nowadays, the pro Snyder bring much more Morrison into the debate (usually as a way to oversimplify and dismiss the criticisms as some "you're just a Morrison lover" thing) than the haters.
    At least, that's how it feels to me.
    Most of the time it seems that way to me as well. Seems like most of the Batman threads end up with Morrison in the mix somewhere
    Characters come and go, revamped and revisited. But as long as you enjoyed them, remember them and continue to appreciate them, then that character, your hero or heroine, will always exist.

  6. #81
    Loading cactusmaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    Batman Begins draws more from "The Man Who Falls" than Year One. The James Bond aesthetics, Ra's Al Ghul, the sane/altruistic personality. It's all there.
    Are you sure? The only Man Who Falls story I know of is about 16 pages long, barely features the crime-ridden Gotham that is central to to Nolan's trilogy, has no Ra's al Ghul in it and not much of a Bond influence either. It shows Bruce's training abroad and the fall in the cave. Even that is pretty different from the movie since it has Thomas Wayne scolding Bruce instead of comforting him. The Batman featured here seems a lot more driven and isolated from regular people compared to the guy in Year One.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by cactusmaac View Post
    Are you sure? The only Man Who Falls story I know of is about 16 pages long, barely features the crime-ridden Gotham that is central to to Nolan's trilogy, has no Ra's al Ghul in it and not much of a Bond influence either. .
    Who cares if it's only 16 pages? Batman #1 is one issue, and it's the biggest influence on The Dark Knight.

    I'm talking about O'Neil's Batman in general, I just cited Man Who Falls as the particular story that Nolan took from for the origin. Bruce falling into the well, the bats, the "why do we fall?" recurring line echoes that story. Also while Ra's isn't in Man Who falls, Henri Ducard is.

    Yes the Falcones, etc. come from Year One/Long Halloween, but obviously the point of what I was saying was about Batman's personality, which is much more in line with O'Neil's then Miller's.

    Nolan has said recently he read a bunch of superhero comics in the 70s, and Batman was the only one he liked. I'm pretty sure it's the O'Neil/Adams comics that shaped his vision of Batman more than anything else.
    Last edited by Mr. Holmes; 12-19-2012 at 03:57 PM.

  8. #83
    Loading cactusmaac's Avatar
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    In what ways as opposed to say Year One Batman?

    Can you quote specific stories, I've got a number of the 70s reprints and Batman seemed much more of a hard-driven, hard-charging professional than the guy in the movies.
    The two most powerful warriors are patience and time - Leo Tolstoy

  9. #84
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Nolan's Batman was much more of an idealist that Miller's soldier on a mission. Of course there's a little bit of Year One Batman there, but more in terms of actions than beliefs and personality.

  10. #85
    Senior Member adkal's Avatar
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    Since there was no trilogy initially planned, isn't it more appropriate to take the initial movie (Begins) and work from there?

    Just a suggestion.

  11. #86
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adkal View Post
    Since there was no trilogy initially planned, isn't it more appropriate to take the initial movie (Begins) and work from there?

    Just a suggestion.
    Even taking just Batman Begins on it's own and ignoring the overall character arc for Nolan's Batman, Miller's Batman was much more interested in instilling fear than he was in inspiring people or becoming an incorruptible "symbol", as Bruce puts it.

  12. #87

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    Snydah hataaahs.
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