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  1. #316
    U dont need my user title brettc1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    Accident prevention as a rationale for literature courses? OK, what ever gets kids reading, I guess. I'll point out, though, that no one in the real world ever got a bump on the head from a tree branch that fell in a comic book--not even if the tree branch was a metal pipe in the previous panel (MASSIVE CONTINUITY ERROR ALERT!)

    There is of course nothing wrong with noticing errors and contradictions. I just think that in comics fandom, nitpicking (rather, than say, interpretation or ideological critique or aesthetic appreciation) has sometimes become the main focus of reading. Maybe Marvel should have given no prizes for spotting allusions and explicating metaphors.
    Did I say accidents. I am talking about people beating the crap out of other people for percieved slights based on the flimsiest of of evidence, or none at all.

    The reason for trying to avoid glaring errors is perfectly valid in a literary sense, since it tends to take readers out of the story. Hard to enjoy the colourful use of language and deep characterization if the main character suddenly produces an M-60 machine gun from under her petticoat where one has never been before and the reader is wondering "WTF?". Or if she talks about loving everyone in one issue and then cuts her teammate with a knife while throwing a tantrum in another.

    Personally I am inclined to think that something that encourages creative teams to work to a higher standard in something people pay money for is a good thing
    Irene Adler: “I would have you right here on this desk until you begged for mercy twice.”
    Sherlock: “I’ve never begged for mercy in my life.”
    Irene: “Twice.”


  2. #317
    Senior Member misslane38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Personally I am inclined to think that something that encourages creative teams to work to a higher standard in something people pay money for is a good thing
    Totally agree. Well said.

  3. #318

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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    ... Personally I am inclined to think that something that encourages creative teams to work to a higher standard in something people pay money for is a good thing
    I agree with this, too.

    Slvn, perhaps you can help me better understand your point of view here - for starters, when does noticing errors become "nitpicking"? I mean, what may not be a big deal to one may take another reader out of the story, right?

    Personally, I don't need perfect continuity across books (though it does help if they want me to believe this is one big universe); but I am pretty strict on consistency within a book, and Johns' JL hasn't been great in this department (eg, Steve's rank from #3-4). Perhaps that's "nitpicking;" perhaps it's sloppy writing and editting, too?
    "... Act, that each tomorrow find us farther than today."
    - Longfellow

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Did I say accidents. I am talking about people beating the crap out of other people for percieved slights based on the flimsiest of of evidence, or none at all.
    I see. Well, I'm all for teaching readers to understand the perspectives of others and not to inflate small or fictitious disagreements. I recall, for example, that a few readers (NOT you or American Wonder or misslaneor--need I even say--Gaelforce, or most others in these parts) who didn't like something about the direction of the Wonder Woman comic accused its creators, editors and/or publishers of being literary "rapists" or even somehow akin to the Taliban. It would be better to teach people not to base such exaggerated judgments on flimsy evidence. I'm not sure that giving "no-prizes" for finding small errors accomplished that; I think it more likely taught young fans that the way to show how smart a reader you are is to show how dumb the writer is. And that's not something that's going to promote the more peaceful, understanding literacy that you want to see. (No-prizes that were given for not just finding but creatively explaining errors are, to some degree at least, another story. And prizes given for finding allusions, explicating metaphors, or writing appreciative or analytical essays or fan fiction would be great. Believe me--I'm all about encouraging close and responsive reading.)

    The reason for trying to avoid glaring errors is perfectly valid in a literary sense, since it tends to take readers out of the story.
    Sure. I didn't think we were arguing about whether writers and artists should avoid glaring errors. My occasionally careless typing aside, I don't actually advocate making glaring errors. What I don't think is a great idea on the part of readers is investing a lot of energy in seeking out and becoming preoccupied with errors. After all, no-prizes encouraged people to look for errors that other readers might not even have noticed.

    Personally I am inclined to think that something that encourages creative teams to work to a higher standard in something people pay money for is a good thing
    That's fine. But I personally care more about high standards for creativity, drama and characterization than I do about high standards of continuity between different books. I'm glad that DC hasn't made Azzarello make his characterization of Diana more consistent with Johns' (which seems more likely than the other way around, since Johns is a sales leader and the Chief Creative Officer). Too much emphasis on keeping simultaneous stories by diverse creative teams somehow "consistent" might be bad for creative freedom, which would be bad for the stories.
    Last edited by slvn; 01-10-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    I agree with this, too.

    Slvn, perhaps you can help me better understand your point of view here - for starters, when does noticing errors become "nitpicking"? I mean, what may not be a big deal to one may take another reader out of the story, right?
    Well, I don't claim to be the arbiter of what is or is not nitpicking. I could be like Justice Potter Stewart (though he was talking about pornography), and just say I know it when I see it. But sure, of course--one person's nitpicking is another's righteous indignation. And again, when something takes you out of the story, there's nothing wrong with saying so. I think my mention of nitpicking came in response to what Brett said about no prizes. My point was simply that the early no prizes, for spotting errors, probably helped elevate the importance of error-spotting above other kinds of reading skills in the culture of comics fans. And that has tended to make comics fans more adversarial towards creators and fractious among ourselves than we perhaps need to be. And it has sometimes seemed to make the comics hobby less about reading and enjoying the books than it is about enjoying complaining about the books.

    Personally, I don't need perfect continuity across books (though it does help if they want me to believe this is one big universe); but I am pretty strict on consistency within a book, and Johns' JL hasn't been great in this department (eg, Steve's rank from #3-4). Perhaps that's "nitpicking;" perhaps it's sloppy writing and editting, too?
    The rank thing looks to me like a pretty good example of clearcut mistake. It's absolutely fine to point it out, and sure, it would be better if the editors had caught it. Personally, I mostly shrug that stuff off, but if it bugs you, it bugs you.

  6. #321
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    You are the No-Prize Poster Boy - no matter the criticism nor complaint, you ALWAYS come up with some explanation.
    I always thought that was Mat001...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  7. #322
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    Avergae height of a white women in America is 5 4 in height!

    Quote Originally Posted by UsagiTsukino View Post
    No, In Europe women are taller than American women. The normal height in America is 5,2 to 5,6 and Europe it's 5,6 to 5,11.

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