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  1. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by thepenguin View Post
    Oh yes, wearing nice clothes and having a flat in London is such a great example of loving everyone and understanding everyone and everything. And he is not forcing anything on her. I suspect if Diana suggested stuff to Superman or the whole DCU you all would have zero problem with it. It's double standards or just simply insecurity and the character has to be such a paragon making her not even real. Did Steve Trevor not help her in the DVD movie in getting the obvious Clarl Kent rip off disguise? Thing is many fans can appreciate Diana getting or seeking help. If you all have a porblem with Diana listening to a friend or consider a suggestion by someone who cares for her, then like I say it is better she stays alone.


    Lets see, in her own book

    Diana has a healthy relationship with her big brother Lennox and her sister Zola
    She just found and befriended a new sister Siracca
    She's currently rehabilitating a deposed Hera
    She got conned by Hermes, the guy who ran around with her for 10 issues and vowed to get the baby back and didn't collapse under her own angst
    She went to Hell, refused to marry Hades, shot him with a love bullet and came back

    Versus in Justice League

    She claims Cheetah was the first and best friend she has ever had, who turned eeeevil, boo freakin hoo
    And so she is forever alone girl and can't trust anyone else
    And so Superman has to teach her about "life outside the Watchtower" as he calls it and takes her to Smallville to show her his normal life

    I just wish there was a little more coordination between the Wonder Woman we see in Justice League and the one in her own title.

    BTW the Steve Trevor in the Wonder Woman movie was a joke and a way for Gail Simone, or her co-writer, whoever to force in some "gender issues" and have Diana claim that the world of man is oh-so-disgusting.
    Last edited by The Man From Room X; 12-19-2012 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From Room X View Post


    Lets see, in her own book

    Diana has a healthy relationship with her big brother Lennox and her sister Zola
    She just found and befriended a new sister Siracca
    She's currently rehabilitating a deposed Hera
    She got conned by Hermes, the guy who ran around with her for 10 issues and vowed to get the baby back and didn't collapse under her own angst
    She went to Hell, refused to marry Hades, shot him with a love bullet and came back

    Versus in Justice League

    She claims Cheetah was the first and best friend she has ever had, who turned eeeevil, boo freakin hoo
    And so she is forever alone girl and can't trust anyone else
    And so Superman has to teach her about "life outside the Watchtower" as he calls it and takes her to Smallville to show her his normal life

    I just wish there was a little more coordination between the Wonder Woman we see in Justice League and the one in her own title.

    BTW the Steve Trevor in the Wonder Woman movie was a joke and a way for Gail Simone, or her co-writer, whoever to force in some "gender issues" and have Diana claim that the world of man is oh-so-disgusting.
    Diana in her own book is only dealing with Gods. She has not been shown to have a normal life. If you call dealing with Gods and being alone in London normal...eh. If she had forged even some close trusting relationship in London by now she's have shared some of her burdens with these people. So does she have trust and control issues? Could be. Diana is ALONE in the sense she has no human friends in London until Azz shows otherwise. Yes there could be better co ordination between the two but Azz needs to be blamed a bit for than because he is not adhering to any timeline and he refuses to acknowledge the rest of the DCU. Come back to all these powers he's giving her too...God mode and swords...will mean zero if no one outside of the WW book uses them.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by americanwonder View Post
    Better example - though Bruce doesn't remind Clark about his Krytonian heritage, he helps to remind him that "Clark" did some much needed good as "Clark." It helps that it was somewhat better written (imo).
    Fair enough. Strike "heritage," replace with "upbringing"--because Superman was brought up as Clark Kent, just as Wonder Woman was brought up as Diana, Princess of the Amazons. For Superman to have to be reminded that the "Clark Kent" identity deserves to live seems to me to be a little like Wonder Woman having to be reminded that she should remain Diana, Princess of the Amazons.

  4. #109
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    He's just giving her a suggestion and when this was done I don't think Superman fans were so insecure that Diana giving Clark the glasses is belittling any of his heritage or upbringing.




    Also in Spirit of Truth she says she wil always be Wonder Woman but she acknowledges Wonder Woman is not who is needed 24/7. Fans have always debate dhow can this woman come out of her isolation and dare to preach at us or teach us. To do that the princess/goddess needs to to come down in the mud with us peasants so to speak. The getting the idea of wearing glasses to just take some down time from Clark is such a no brainer. It's up to her to choose if she wants to do that on a regular basis and having lots of money for room service and wearing fancy clothes and living in London...oh sure Wonder Woman loves everyone. That's bs to say she does because she says it. WW has not been shown to love everyone. Yet. You can't love everyone from an ivory tower.
    Last edited by thepenguin; 12-20-2012 at 06:04 AM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From Room X View Post
    BTW the Steve Trevor in the Wonder Woman movie was a joke and a way for Gail Simone, or her co-writer, whoever to force in some "gender issues" and have Diana claim that the world of man is oh-so-disgusting.
    Steve was awesome. Nathan Fillion rules
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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylesgirl View Post
    Diana in her own book is only dealing with Gods. She has not been shown to have a normal life. If you call dealing with Gods and being alone in London normal...eh. If she had forged even some close trusting relationship in London by now she's have shared some of her burdens with these people. So does she have trust and control issues? Could be. Diana is ALONE in the sense she has no human friends in London until Azz shows otherwise. Yes there could be better co ordination between the two but Azz needs to be blamed a bit for than because he is not adhering to any timeline and he refuses to acknowledge the rest of the DCU. Come back to all these powers he's giving her too...God mode and swords...will mean zero if no one outside of the WW book uses them.
    No the whole problem with this dynamic is because it doesn't work in any time frame at all. Superman is teaching WW how to live in civilian life when she's been living in man's world for 5 years now, she should know better now and comes off as idiotic. WW in her book comes off as confident and experienced when this WW doesn't. She also seems to be able to handle herself ins erious situations which this WW doesn't. Superman is teaching her how to blend in Smallville, WW seems to easily blend into civilain life in LONDON. London is a big place with lots of people and she seems fine there whilst Smallville is a boring, sparse farm town. This whole relationship as far has come off as Superman telling her how great his and how she should be like her because he's wise and know's human culture whilst she doesn't.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquacatlungfish View Post
    Superman is teaching WW how to live in civilian life when she's been living in man's world for 5 years now, she should know better now and comes off as idiotic.
    WW isn't been living in man's world for 5 years now. It's a lie told by those writers! Stop believe it. This 5 years timeline in the New 52 doesn't exist.
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepenguin View Post
    He's just giving her a suggestion and when this was done I don't think Superman fans were so insecure that Diana giving Clark the glasses is belittling any of his heritage or upbringing.
    What happened in Kingdom Come is not the same thing. The glasses and Clark Kent disguise were already part of Clark and something he'd used for years. Back to Justice League. I'll only be okay with it if Diana makes it her own. If this is the beginning if Diana becoming even more the female version of Clark -- to the point that they pretty much look, say, and do the same things -- then it'll make me uncomfortable. What has made me less tolerant of the possibility of it at this point has been the pattern of imbalance in the Superman and Wonder Woman dynamic for issues now, and now this, which is starting to give their relationship less of a romantic tone and more of a teacher/student tone. Jury's also still out whether Clark had the glasses beforehand, which would also take away some of the spontaneous and fun nature of the scene.

    Also in Spirit of Truth she says she wil always be Wonder Woman but she acknowledges Wonder Woman is not who is needed 24/7. Fans have always debate dhow can this woman come out of her isolation and dare to preach at us or teach us. To do that the princess/goddess needs to to come down in the mud with us peasants so to speak. The getting the idea of wearing glasses to just take some down time from Clark is such a no brainer. It's up to her to choose if she wants to do that on a regular basis and having lots of money for room service and wearing fancy clothes and living in London...oh sure Wonder Woman loves everyone. That's bs to say she does because she says it. WW has not been shown to love everyone. Yet. You can't love everyone from an ivory tower.
    As far as I know Diana hasn't been presented as being interested in preaching to us peasants. And if the point is for a goddess to impart wisdom to the people, then making the people believe she is someone else doesn't achieve the same goal. Are you suggesting she'd become a reporter to express her views? What are her views? Either way, to actually interact with humans in the way you're describing, she'll need to have more than a costume. She'll need an identity. That means a job and some sort of faked but functional human background. Interestingly, all of this reminds me of Post-Crisis Supergirl. What will be interesting is if all of Superman's grooming allows Diana to assert herself enough to choose either no disguise at all or her own type of disguise that ultimately makes a relationship with Steve Trevor -- who would have benefited from this in the first place -- more feasible.
    Last edited by misslane38; 12-20-2012 at 08:33 AM.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    WW isn't been living in man's world for 5 years now. It's a lie told by those writers! Stop believe it. This 5 years timeline in the New 52 doesn't exist.
    So what's the actual time line then?
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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    WW isn't been living in man's world for 5 years now. It's a lie told by those writers! Stop believe it. This 5 years timeline in the New 52 doesn't exist.
    Sadly it does to Geoff Johns and all those writers who have to manhandle their characters to fit into it.

  11. #116
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    And yet they write everything like not much time (barely one year) happened since the beginning of the New 52. It's more logical that way if you ignore this 5 years nonsense.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 12-20-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    And yet they write everything like not much time (barely one year) happened since the beginning of the New 52. It's more logical that way if you ignore this 5 years nonsense.
    Appart from Justice League, it actually doesn't, and probably make even less sense. At least in the books I read.
    Or you explain to me how Batman managed to have 4 Robins, including one who died, with 3 of them turning almost adult, in less than a year.
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  13. #118
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Or you explain to me how Batman managed to have 4 Robins, including one who died, with 3 of them turning almost adult, in less than a year.
    They wanted to change many things as well as to merge two universes but they didn't want to change stuff with Batman and Green Lantern.
    So, why not using this explanation itself? After Flashpoint two timelines from two universes were merged together by mistake, creating a new timeline/universe with Batman + his 4 Robins existing before the JL, with a younger Superman and WW having a new origin, Constantine, Stormwatch, Grifter, etc.
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 12-20-2012 at 09:45 AM.
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  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Fournier View Post
    They wanted to change many things as well as to merge two universes but they didn't want to change stuff with Batman and Green Lantern.
    So, why not using this explanation itself? After Flashpoint two timelines from two universes were merged together by mistake, creating a new timeline/universe with Batman + his 4 Robins existing before the JL, with a younger Superman and WW having a new origin, Constantine, Stormwatch, Grifter, etc.
    Even in Justice League, though, some time had to pass after the first arc for
    --Steve Trevor's history with Team Seven to happen;
    --Martian Manhunter to join and then clash with the team;
    --ARGUS to be created and fully established;
    --Congress to pour billions of dollar into the league (according to a congressman in issue 7), build and launch the Watchtower satellite, and repeatedly demand greater access to the League's inner workings;
    --Barbara Minerva to be recruited by ARGUS, work with Wonder Woman, become the Cheetah, and then repeatedly clash with Wonder Woman;
    --the Black and Red Rooms to get stocked up;
    --Green Lantern to be saved by Wonder Woman enough to know he hates it (as he says under the influence of the lasso in issue 7);
    -- Batman and Superman to establish what Superman believes to be a close working relationship;
    --Wonder Woman to move to London;
    --Cyborg to accidentally boom tube the League to Apocalips twice, and to boom tube elsewhere 1,056 times since the last trip to Darkseid's world (according to issue 8);
    --Graves to publish his Justice League book, lose his family, get sick and start his "villain's journey";
    --the League to have encountered various villains, some of whom are mentioned in #10;
    --Batman to establish Brother Eye and then lose control of it.

    And other stuff, I'm sure. So, is five years really too long? I'm not so sure. I can understand people thinking that the League should be a more cohesive group after five years; but they apparently have mostly only come together for emergencies and have remained pretty protective of their secrets as they try to figure out this new role of "super hero." So they haven't bonded as quickly as you might think.

  15. #120
    French-Canadian Frank Fournier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvn View Post
    So, is five years really too long? I'm not so sure. I can understand people thinking that the League should be a more cohesive group after five years; but they apparently have mostly only come together for emergencies and have remained pretty protective of their secrets as they try to figure out this new role of "super hero." So they haven't bonded as quickly as you might think.
    Even if I'm working occasionally with my co-workers it'd take me just a few days at work to know if I've bonded with them or not. And after a year we'll all know how to work together.

    I guess saving your co-worker's life and avoiding danger for 5 years is different for super-heroes. Is WW some kind of recluse? If she loves everybody then why isn't able to make more than one or two friends?

    And if Superman is schooling her, what lessons can he learn from her (what can she offer to him, except you know what)?
    Last edited by Frank Fournier; 12-20-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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