Batgirl walks, Jason lives....

[tunneler]

Oracle was just a boring character and an old woman who became a supporting character. According to Batman Barbara was always meant to be Batgirl.

[Mr. Holmes]

While that might be true, doesn't change that they didn't didn't find any new interesting ways to use Oracle, and were reluctant to even try.

Who do you mean by they?

[sunofdarkchild]

They had plenty of ideas by the end of 2010. After The Flood she was written out of the Batgirl series, was doing very interesting stuff in Birds of Prey and INC, and it really looked kike a new era for Oracle.

My thoughts on the killing/maiming and then restoring characters thing. If the effects of the death are powerful and become important to the mythos, then restoring the character is a bad idea usually. Babs and Jason fall into that catagory regardless of the quality of the stories in which they were hurt/killed. Steph, regardless of the quality of War Games, was almost completely forgotten except by Cass, who was then turned evil herself and written out. There was therefore less to lose by bringing her back and some sort of change to deal with the problems with War Games became more of a factor. And there was also the salvaging of the character of Leslie Thompkins to consider.

Once you decide to bring a character back, there is the question of what to do with him/her, and how to bring them back. With Jason it was a failure imo because they didn't even bother to think of how he'd come back, and it was only after he'd been back for a while that they decided to use the stupid reality punch. Jason's return would be tainted by this even if every story he had been in since was gold, and after the initial story he became a walking waste of space. Steph had a competant reason for her return, but storywise it was was still a year until her return was justified in the Batgirl series. With Babs making her Oracle already was all the fix to her situation necessary, and the fact that two other people more than competantly filled the Batgirl role made it more unnecessary. That said, the fact that a reboot happened is more than enough justification to make Babs Batgirl again. The problem I have is that the decision to leave TKJ in continuity while retconning all of her character growth and most of her skills afterwards, combined with some lame story ideas and subpar-to average execution, ruined the character for me.

[Godlike13]

who do you mean by they?

DC. And i also mean that they didn't didn't find any new interesting ways to use Oracle after BoP, and were reluctant to even try. Well, besides Morrison's JLA. Always thought it was kind of a shame that her stint with the JLA pretty much began and ended with Morrison. Anyway what Dixon did was fantastic, its just after 10 years u'd think that wouldn't just be it for Oracle. Or well, maybe thats just me.

[vampiric_cannibal]

DiDio even came out and said they were planning to do it, but that it would be a crime to do that.

Of course they did it anyway later.

Before: Levitz. He's got good instincts.
After: No Levitz. Unrestrained DiDio and Harras going for the short term and alienation.

[carabas]

There's always the option to... you know... not kill the characters in the first place.

Or hey, radical notion: create new ones.

[carabas]

I read Birds Of Prey vol. 2, and while it wasn't bad, it hardly reinvented the wheel or anything.

Extreely few comics do... Nobody thinks Nightwing is obsolete and should revert back to being Robin whenever that book goes through one of its many mediocre patches. Like now.

Sure Oracle took her phone of the hook, but that was just putting Oracle back into the cyber shadow. Though to be fair, then the relaunch happened. So we never really got to saw where Gail was going with that BoP.

Didn't I just say that?

And ya it was just a single year that Babs ended up as Batgirl support, but that was one of the biggest and most innovating years the Bat books saw in a good while. Yet all they apparently could think to do with Oracle is either make her Batgirl again, or just have her continue to do pretty much the same thing she was doing before.

You don't seem to get how comics are made.
If editorial tells everybody Babs is going to be BAtgirl and that Oracle doesn't exist anymore, absolutely nobody is going to be using the character. And nobody is going to change their plans for their books when it turns out this won't be happening after all.

Also, Batman Inc.
She was apparantly going to be a pretty important part of that once writer had had enough time to adjust to the altered situation.

While that might be true, doesn't change that they didn't didn't find any new interesting ways to use Oracle, and were reluctant to even try.

Actually, they did. There was the Internet 2.0 stuff in Batman Inc. and the Death Of Oracle arc in Bird Of Prey you yourself have mentioned.

[shark]

Oracle was just a boring character and an old woman who became a supporting character. According to Batman Barbara was always meant to be Batgirl.

Always nice to know that a female character becomes obsolete the moment she hits 30.

[sunofdarkchild]

Always nice to know that a female character becomes obsolete the moment she hits 30.

Apparently every character becomes obsolete at 30, unless they're Batman.

[sunofdarkchild]

The title changed from Batgril to Batgirl.

There is such thing as Batgrill.

This is an outrage! Batgrill was my favourite character! Let's protest and send steaks until Batgrill is brought back!

Batgrill is real!!!!!

[The Man From Room X]

Always nice to know that a female character becomes obsolete the moment she hits 30.

Any female character except Barbara Gordon the Dominoed Daredoll who will ever be known as the one true Batgirl even when she turns 50, that is.

[shark]

Any female character except Barbara Gordon the Dominoed Daredoll who will ever be known as the one true Batgirl even when she turns 50, that is.

Don't worry, Barb the Dominoed Doll will never age.

She'll stay a cute sassy girl forever.

[carabas]

Don't worry, Barb the Dominoed Doll will never age.

She'll stay a cute sassy girl forever.

Or tragically be reverted to that age if somebody ever does let her grow up...

[Whip Whirlwind]

This is an outrage! Batgrill was my favourite character! Let's protest and send steaks until Batgrill is brought back!

Batgrill is real!!!!!

Batgrill vs Batcow gogogo!

[nepenthes]

Believe it or not but I have actually eaten a bat before, though from memory it was roasted and not grilled. Just thought now would be a good a time as any too mention that.

Batgirl walking is a miracle. Jason being alive is impossible....These two elements alone completely discredit the Joker's career, for me. They've basically erased his greatest achievements, which really sucks the impact from the story.

I agree in part. Recent developments with Barbara and Jason have softened Jokers track record - to the detriment of his character and potentially to the overall mythos. That said I do like the way their respective writers (Simone and Lobdell) have at least spun it too their advantage, in the Death tie-in issues, whereby the Joker is now actually ecstatic to see them again as the routine can be continued for a new round of laughs and torture. If they frame it in a way that the Joker doesn't actually see it as a defeat but rather as a sweet surprise, a chance to do it all over again, then the legacy of the events is maintained while new stories with the players made possible.

And Lobdell's only continuing what Winick and Morrison have already been doing, where Jason's return, at the beginning, definitely had potential to undo his tragic place in the lore, yet so far has been handled in a way that preservers and continues it.

In themselves I wish Barbara could be the Batgirl of Internet V.3 forever and my only issue with Jasons return is that, yeah he may come slightly too far back into the fold right now. Lobdell seems to be playing it right in his own series but in Snyders book, with Jase appearing at his bedside etc, it just feels a little too happy thanksgiving. We're yet to see how Morrison will explain the Wingman stuff.